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^ rd you are blaming the healthcare system in France for thousands of heat wave related deaths?....lest you forget the hundreds that perished in Chicago & the midwest a few years ago also due to lack of air conditioning? (same reason as in France) or are you just cherry picking info also to make your points?
did you read the part about the 20% of the doctors being on their state mandated vacations? last I checked doctors were a VERY integral part of the health system... I'm fairly certain it doesn't really function without them.
cherry picking, that's something piggy moore does...
also, I never understood how the hundreds died in Chicago either. We have heat like that pretty much every day for 4+ months of the year and people don't die.. believe it or not, not everyone has AC here either...
did you read the part about the 20% of the doctors being on their state mandated vacations? last I checked doctors were a VERY integral part of the health system... I'm fairly certain it doesn't really function without them.
cherry picking, that's something piggy moore does...
also, I never understood how the hundreds died in Chicago either. We have heat like that pretty much every day for 4+ months of the year and people don't die.. believe it or not, not everyone has AC here either...
a lot of the heat wave death are thought to have been old people in high crime areas who were too scared to open their windows or go outside.
moore does tend to cherry pick, and that's why i'm not crazy about his other films. but because our health system really is so screwed up there wasn't much he needed to cherry pick to make his case for this one. he could have just put on the blindfold, grab something, and the product wouldn't have been much different. even the most "balanced" documentary about our health care system won't have it looking pretty, says i.
Cherry pick all you want... everyone knows someone that has been given the run around in the US...
Believe it or not, getting screwed over by an insurance company is so common that we all know someone.
My family lost my step mother because the insurance company screwed her over. They refused to pay for a life saving surgery at the very last minute, and she joined several other women in a lawsuit to fight the decision. The women won, but they all had passed away by the time the verdict came out. Had she been in another country... well, she still may be with us today, but who knows, right? Apparently, there is a price tag on life... and if you're wealthy enough to cough up the cash, you can live. If you've hit unfortunately circumstances or just don't make that kind of income... well, guess you don't really deserve to maintain your life and health.
So what if MM cherry picks. So do the insurance companies. I know more people who have gotten screwed over financially by the health care system than not, and I know I'm not alone.
ok, I guess I'm that one person that hasn't.. I'm retired military and have some of the best insurance in the world. My wife had an almost $40K stay in the hospital a few months before I retired and it cost absolutely nothing. Now I have to pay something like $430/year, but I don't mind at all because I know I'm covered no matter what.
well, except the obvious things like suicide attempt, drunk driving and other stupid things I'm not going to do. actually, I'm not sure if they don't cover them, but I would think they wouldn't..
Michael Moore is a brilliant propagandist, but unfortunately that also means he's liar. He says the" NHS in the U.K. is "free" in Sicko. Next year's NHS budget will be about £104 billion. That's roughly £1,733 per man, woman and child. Multiplied by four for a typical two-child family, then divided by 12, that equates to median monthly family healthcare expenditure of £577, or $1,155 in American money. I can buy some very respectable US health insurance for $1,155 a month. In fact, on a quick and painless stroll through the website for Kaiser Permanente, a leading nonprofit US healthcare provider, entering my basic family details and the Beverly Hills zipcode, the most expensive family policy I can find that does not depend on contributions from the state or an employer costs $400 less than the sum Gordon Brown (British Prime Minister) currently chooses to spend from my taxes, each month, on the NHS, so unfortunately the credibility of the movie is lost from the start.
Hilary Clinton is ALL FOR socialised medicine, in the U.S, and it will not improve anything. All it will do, is make the healthcare go down hill, because Doctors will be given incentives, for cutting costs and corners, in any way that they can, and the physical health of the people, will become secondary, just as it is here in the UK.
I know of a guy here in the U.K, who had a steel hinge put in his knee. He was having all kinds of problems with it, including hyperextension of his knee. Doctors here kept telling him, he was crazy, and that he just needed to be diligent, and continue with his physical therapy. After 6 months, they found that the steel hinge had been inserted, upsidedown, which was the cause of all the problems! This guy NEVER even bothered to sue, because people just sit back, and accept the horrible healthcare here, because there is basically no chance of winning any lawsuits against the NHS.
I saw in the film SICKO, that there is a woman, who complained that she was made to pay an ambulance fee, because her ambulance ride was not cleared beforehand, by her insurance company. The woman stated,"When was I supposed to clear the ambulance ride with my insurance company? Before or during the time I was unconscious?"
If this woman had actually READ her insurance contract before signing it, she would have seen that her insurance plan, did not cover ambulance rides, unless they were approved before hand. If she doesn't want the hassle of a plan like this, then maybe she should have chosen a plan that allowed ambulance rides for any reason, no pre-approval necessary.
Michael Moore actually claims that CUBA has a better medical system, then America. Then do tell why Fidel Castro himself, was flown into the U.S, to have American doctors fix a botched bowel surgery, gone wrong, because of the wonderful and free Cuban healthcare system?
As far as Michael Moore is concerned... I hope he cuts back on the amount of food he puts in his mouth, and starts doing some exercise, because if the USA ever does get a national healthcare system, I do not want to pay for his heart surgery, and/or stomach reduction, out of my hard earned paychecks.
SICKO is a very one sided view of the American Healthcare system.... just as AL Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth", is a very one sided view of Global warming. People should seriously consider all possibilities, before jumping onto the political bandwagons that seem to be plaguing the world today, and immediately taking a side. After all... it's your hard earned money that the government will be using (against you in my opinion).
Last edited by Calibelle; 07-25-2007 at 07:13 AM..
Michael Moore is a brilliant propagandist, but unfortunately that also means he's liar. He says the" NHS in the U.K. is "free" in Sicko. Next year's NHS budget will be about £104 billion. That's roughly £1,733 per man, woman and child. Multiplied by four for a typical two-child family, then divided by 12, that equates to median monthly family healthcare expenditure of £577, or $1,155 in American money. I can buy some very respectable US health insurance for $1,155 a month. In fact, on a quick and painless stroll through the website for Kaiser Permanente, a leading nonprofit US healthcare provider, entering my basic family details and the Beverly Hills zipcode, the most expensive family policy I can find that does not depend on contributions from the state or an employer costs $400 less than the sum Gordon Brown (British Prime Minister) currently chooses to spend from my taxes, each month, on the NHS, so unfortunately the credibility of the movie is lost from the start.
Hilary Clinton is ALL FOR socialised medicine, in the U.S, and it will not improve anything. All it will do, is make the healthcare go down hill, because Doctors will be given incentives, for cutting costs and corners, in any way that they can, and the physical health of the people, will become secondary, just as it is here in the UK.
I know of a guy here in the U.K, who had a steel hinge put in his knee. He was having all kinds of problems with it, including hyperextension of his knee. Doctors here kept telling him, he was crazy, and that he just needed to be diligent, and continue with his physical therapy. After 6 months, they found that the steel hinge had been inserted, upsidedown, which was the cause of all the problems! This guy NEVER even bothered to sue, because people just sit back, and accept the horrible healthcare here, because there is basically no chance of winning any lawsuits against the NHS.
I saw in the film SICKO, that there is a woman, who complained that she was made to pay an ambulance fee, because her ambulance ride was not cleared beforehand, by her insurance company. The woman stated,"When was I supposed to clear the ambulance ride with my insurance company? Before or during the time I was unconscious?"
If this woman had actually READ her insurance contract before signing it, she would have seen that her insurance plan, did not cover ambulance rides, unless they were approved before hand. If she doesn't want the hassle of a plan like this, then maybe she should have chosen a plan that allowed ambulance rides for any reason, no pre-approval necessary.
Michael Moore actually claims that CUBA has a better medical system, then America. Then do tell why Fidel Castro himself, was flown into the U.S, to have American doctors fix a botched bowel surgery, gone wrong, because of the wonderful and free Cuban healthcare system?
As far as Michael Moore is concerned... I hope he cuts back on the amount of food he puts in his mouth, and trys doing some exercise, because if the USA ever does get a national healthcare system, I do not want to pay for his heart surgery, and/or stomach reduction, out of my hard earned paychecks.
SICKO is a very one sided view of the American Healthcare system.... just as AL Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth", is a very one sided view of Global warming. People should seriously consider all possibilities, before jumping onto the political bandwagons that seem to be plaguing the world today, and immediately taking a side. After all... it's your hard earned money that the government will be using (against you in my opinion).
how's this for considering the other possibilities for how the government uses our money: the u.s. spends about 16% of its gdp ($5711 per capita) on health care, the uk spends 7.8% ($2317 per capita). that's over twice as much. the u.s. is head and shoulders above other oecd countries (including france and canada) in terms of what it spends:
we already have a system of incentives in place for doctors to "cut costs." it's call managed care, and private insurance companies practice it. cost-cutting is only going to get more popular in the u.s., whether we have socialized medicine or not. personally, i'm much more comfortable with my doctor working for the government than a corporation. the goals of a corporation have nothing to do with my health and *everything* to do with cutting costs!!!
which leads me to a fine example from the film that you provided: who would even *conceive* of needing to clear an ambulance ride with an insurance company before receiving one for an emergency? seriously. the fact that an insurance plan would even have such a stipulation in its policy just shows how underhanded they are about preventing people from accessing medical care in order to . . . drum roll please . . . cut costs!
ad hominem attack on moore's weight. really productive.
how's this for considering the other possibilities for how the government uses our money: the u.s. spends about 16% of its gdp ($5711 per capita) on health care, the uk spends 7.8% ($2317 per capita). that's over twice as much. the u.s. is head and shoulders above other oecd countries (including france and canada) in terms of what it spends:
we already have a system of incentives in place for doctors to "cut costs." it's call managed care, and private insurance companies practice it. cost-cutting is only going to get more popular in the u.s., whether we have socialized medicine or not. personally, i'm much more comfortable with my doctor working for the government than a corporation. the goals of a corporation have nothing to do with my health and *everything* to do with cutting costs!!!
which leads me to a fine example from the film that you provided: who would even *conceive* of needing to clear an ambulance ride with an insurance company before receiving one for an emergency? seriously. the fact that an insurance plan would even have such a stipulation in its policy just shows how underhanded they are about preventing people from accessing medical care in order to . . . drum roll please . . . cut costs!
ad hominem attack on moore's weight. really productive.
Okay let me do a comparison for you. My husband, has several cancerous looking spots that need to be removed on his back. He also has a mole, that is partially above and on his lip, which he has been cutting for years, everytime he shaves. A doctor in the U.S, would remove any large moles on his back, and immediately refer my husband, to someone who could safely remove the mole from his face. Why would a doctor take immediate action? Because the insurance company will cover a hefty portion of the cost anyway, after I make a co-payment, that's why. The doctor has nothing to lose, he or she will get their money. As long as I am familiar with my insurance policy, I will know what is covered and what isn't. Their are different insurance policies to choose from, and I can choose the best one for me.
But regarding my husband's potentially cancerous moles... The doctor here in the UK, gives my husband some idiotic ointment, to spread on his moles, to see if if changes the fact, that some of them look dangerously cancerous. He actually admits that he has to try this first, before he is even allowed to refer my husband to a specialist. He gets bonuses, if he saves the NHS money. It's been 6 months, and we are still doing this dance with this doctor. It's ridiculous. The doctors' job here in the U.K, consists of giving a prescription for anti-biotics, regardless if you have a bacterial infection or not, and to hand you a pack of pain killers on the way out.
As far as me making a comment about Michael Moores weight... someone who is promoting better health care for all, who is showing an interest in the overall health of an entire nation of people.... should have a healthy appearance. He's in the spotlight, and he looks so disgusting, that I can't even take him seriously. He represents perfectly, the type of American image that people around the world, make fun of us American's for a.ka., a fat, sloppy, loud, American.
And to all of you who have never lived outside of America, and are complaining about the healthcare in the U.S.... it's much easier to say that America's healthcare system sucks, when one has never had the firsthand experience, of dealing with another country's healthcare.
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Cherry pick all you want... everyone knows someone that has been given the run around in the US...
