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Old 09-21-2010, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,867 posts, read 21,962,504 times
Reputation: 13697

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
There isn't a single UK politician quoted in that article and you are clearly ignorant of UK politics which is why you cannot name them. This thread has no value because there is no-one contributing to it, except me , with any idea of British politics or how things are done there.

This story was broken by the British satirical magazine Private Eye a couple for weeks ago. It was picked up by the tabloids and distorted a little. In reality, it was an idea floated by the contractors who were responsible for the most recent computer foul-up at HMRC and who were looking for ways to keep the gravy-train running. That is why the article does not even quote an official at HMRC ... because this is not an HMRC idea or position.

Read the article. Not one politician is quoted or named and not one HMRC official.
You are being obtuse. A government agency floats this idea, and you want me to believe that no politician agrees them? Next you are going to tell me that with all the socialism going on in the UK, that there are no socialists in UK politics. I might be ignorant of the finer points of UK politics, but I'm not stupid.
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Old 09-21-2010, 09:20 AM
 
14,249 posts, read 17,869,289 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
You are being obtuse. A government agency floats this idea, and you want me to believe that no politician agrees them? Next you are going to tell me that with all the socialism going on in the UK, that there are no socialists in UK politics. I might be ignorant of the finer points of UK politics, but I'm not stupid.
If "HMRC" had floated the idea as you allege then why does the article not name a single HMRC official? Err ... its because they did not actually float any idea. Try to inform yourself before jumping to conclusions on the basis of a single article.

Secondly, where does "socialism" come into this? The more so as the UK has a Conservative prime minister and chancellor. If this is about "socialism then why didn't the previous Labour government float the idea. After all, they had 13 years in power and a rock solid majority for all of that time.

You think I am being obtuse. I think that you are ill-informed and trying to project your US idealogical prejudices onto UK politics.
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,867 posts, read 21,962,504 times
Reputation: 13697
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
Sorry, wrong again. This liberal liked getting paid.
Not a very good Marxist then are you?
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:26 AM
 
Location: in my imagination
13,562 posts, read 21,332,359 times
Reputation: 10053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
You are being obtuse. A government agency floats this idea, and you want me to believe that no politician agrees them? Next you are going to tell me that with all the socialism going on in the UK, that there are no socialists in UK politics. I might be ignorant of the finer points of UK politics, but I'm not stupid.

Actually I discussed this witha few UK members on another board and none supported the idea plus they said the article was skewed in truth. They basically called this a fear mongoring article.
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,867 posts, read 21,962,504 times
Reputation: 13697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
If "HMRC" had floated the idea as you allege then why does the article not name a single HMRC official? Err ... its because they did not actually float any idea. Try to inform yourself before jumping to conclusions on the basis of a single article.
did you read any of the links, or do you think someone hacked the HMRC website?

HM Revenue & Customs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
Secondly, where does "socialism" come into this? The more so as the UK has a Conservative prime minister and chancellor. If this is about "socialism then why didn't the previous Labour government float the idea. After all, they had 13 years in power and a rock solid majority for all of that time.

You think I am being obtuse. I think that you are ill-informed and trying to project your US idealogical prejudices onto UK politics.
Yes i do.

You think there is no socialists or socialism in the UK government? What would you call their state run health care if not socialism?


Socialism Today - About Us
Socialist Party (England and Wales) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Socialist Labour Party (UK) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Socialist Party Kent
Scottish Socialist Party Alternative UK Budget
etc...

Last edited by Wapasha; 09-24-2010 at 10:05 AM..
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,867 posts, read 21,962,504 times
Reputation: 13697
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Actually I discussed this witha few UK members on another board and none supported the idea plus they said the article was skewed in truth. They basically called this a fear mongoring article.
I was not trying to do anything else, other then to just have a discussion. However, I do think this would be a dream come true for the socialists in the UK.
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:29 AM
 
14,249 posts, read 17,869,289 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
did you read any of the links, or do you think someone hacked the HMRC website?

HM Revenue & Customs

Yes i do.

You think there is no socialists or socialism in the UK government? What would you call their state run health care if not socialism?


Socialism Today - About Us
Socialist Party (England and Wales) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Socialist Labour Party (UK) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Socialist Party Kent
Scottish Socialist Party Alternative UK Budget
etc...
Did you actually read the discussion document? You have probably misunderstood section 5.6. In fact, section 5.5. is the key as the idea is to set up a central calculator and not a central payments system.

In fact, the whole thrust of the discussion document is to use the electronic funds transfer system, which already processes most payroll payments in the UK, to streamline the collection of tax and reduce administration for both the employer and HMRC. It would also be helpful to individuals as the current tax code system does not handle part-time employment or people with multiple jobs through the year very well. This, in itself, is not unreasonable.

Also, see section 5.10 .... "At no stage would HMRC or its agents have direct access to any money or information contained in the recipient’s bank account or indeed the bank account itself."

The discussion document does not float the idea of all payments going to government and then being redistributed out to the employees.

As to the NHS. It is no more socialist than government run schools or law enforcement and it delivers good health care for a fraction of the cost we pay in the USA.

Your "socialist" links are a joke. A bunch of fringe parties who don't represent very much.
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:29 AM
 
Location: in my imagination
13,562 posts, read 21,332,359 times
Reputation: 10053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
I was not trying to do anything else, other then to just have a discussion. However, I do think this would be a dream come true for the socialists in the UK.

It would probably be a dream come true for true socialists, and while Europe and Britian may have certain policies that make most American's cringe the idea that they all over there support such extreme things isn't true. Every UK member that responded said no to this idea if it were the idea while a couple just shrugged at the idea saying "as long as I get my paycheck".

My understanding that the proposal was actually business submitting payments for review so taxes are correct and then business paying the employee.
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:34 AM
 
14,249 posts, read 17,869,289 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
It would probably be a dream come true for true socialists, and while Europe and Britian may have certain policies that make most American's cringe the idea that they all over there support such extreme things isn't true. Every UK member that responded said no to this idea if it were the idea while a couple just shrugged at the idea saying "as long as I get my paycheck".

My understanding that the proposal was actually business submitting payments for review so taxes are correct and then business paying the employee.
That is correct.
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,416,290 times
Reputation: 24780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
This is on par with the liberal mindset, that we work for the government, all our hard earned money is government's, and government should decide how much money they need first, then we can have what is left over.

"The UK's tax collection agency is putting forth a proposal that all employers send employee paychecks to the government, after which the government would deduct what it deems as the appropriate tax and pay the employees by bank transfer."

UK Proposes All Paychecks Go to the State First (http://www.cnbc.com/id/39265847 - broken link)

I enjoy watching wingnuts making things up to get angry over.
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