If the Repubs take control, how long for the economy to turn around? (Clinton, Obama)

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

I dont care rep, or dem...if they dont get all the 'freetrade' laws repealed, the economy will never truely turn around and jobs wont come back

1. repeal the freetrade agreements

Most citizens have difficulty articulating why this version of 'free trade' is so horrible. Beyond blind loyalty to ideology dujour-- here's my metaphor; we've rationalized overriding child labor law, sending our kids into a mine, to in effect pay for their iron lung. what good is being able to say I've fed my kids today if I've taken away their ability to feed themselves tomorrow? This is the economic death spiral that offers no future, beholden to short term goals & 15 minutes of fame. It's an illusion that needs busting. Red coats marching into knives because 'that's the way we do it'. This is nuts.

I'm not against capitalism or free market or global trade wholesale. Is it appropriate to go whole hog protectionist stance? No! There needs to be a better deal negotiating the best interests of all. Kiss the ring of corporate moguls with zero tax? You don't need the rest of us to sign off on feudalism to satisfy your brand of utopia- you go on ahead and live it out on your own dime. Oppressive tariffs... US biz doesn't need special ed favors. American policy should have first priority being meat and potatoes self sufficiency, slings and arrows of outrageous fortune is gravy. The kids want twinkies for dinner and good governance means saying no.

[Waianaegirl]

Originally Posted by ILikeToRead

Won't happen until we get someone other than a Repub or Dem in the presidental office. Neither are going to do anything except the same old crap. We need something new!

We need people that actually care. Some of these republicans are no better than the dems. We need conservatives in there. Not neccessarily repbulicans.

[rogerbacon]

Originally Posted by Waianaegirl

We need people that actually care. Some of these republicans are no better than the dems. We need conservatives in there. Not neccessarily repbulicans.

That is true but that automatically excludes Democrats as none of htem are convcservatives. The Dems drove the conservatives out of their party long ago. Remember, Reagan was once a Democrat <shudder at the thought> but that was a long time ago before the party got taken over by the kooks.

Our best hope is to close the primaries to only republicans and nominate a true conservative, not some middle of the road, or worse -- a RINO like McCain. If we give the voters a choice between a true conservative and the trash that the libs will nominate on their side then we will win and as we win so does the country.

[TempesT68]

Originally Posted by nycwind

My prediction is we go into a full blown depression.

I agree, what the repugs don't understand and keep saying "well when the dems took congress the economy plunged!" The reason why the dems absolutely slaughtered the repugs in the last mid terms was because the country was in a complete downward spiral and the american people were sick of it. The dems put the brakes on the repugs, but the damage was already done and kicked into full force once they took control of congress and we're still feeling it today. The same reason why we have a dem in office right now. If the right were doing so well, they never would have lost office.
Granted I don't think obama and his admin have been doing as much as they should be, being buddy-buddy with the right and passing weaksauce bills that do little if anything. Obama i think has gotten the hint that "reaching across the isle" was a huge mistake as the right want to be babies. If the right take control expect to have nothing done in congress, leading to complete collapse. We'll be thinking we are living the high life now compared to the nightmare it will be with republican control.

[Visvaldis]

"If the Repubs take control, how long for the economy to turn around?"
I think about one week should be plenty of time. They have god on their side so working miracles should come easy for the Republicans. God should be overjoyed to help his favorite party; the Republicans.

[Old Gringo]

I predict that within a year, we'll be in a steep double-dip recession that'll make the first part look mild.

[hawkeye2009]

Originally Posted by walidm

lol...

Businesses are always sitting on huge stockpiles of cash. Businesses have accelerated cash spending as well as acquisitions since Q2 2009.

Source

Gee- things are going so well. Perhaps they are not going well.

1. unemployment nearly 10%
2. record debt and deficits
3. record foreclosures
4. declining incomes

And we have not yet even experienced the Obama tax increases coming in January. That will make 2011 particularly hellish for the economy, but I really do not think that Obama cares, as he is more concerned with "transformation" than the plight of the average citizen.

[Donn2390]

The day the Republicans take over, the market will soar and companies will start hiring.
Obama is pure poison to business. As soon as he loses his power, business will explode... They won't have to worry about his horrible policies anymore, the good times will be back...!

[jetgraphics]

No matter which Demopublican or Republicrat majority is elected, the current United Socialist States of America will continue to operate as a democracy, using bribery, opinion polls, and popularity contests to run the government.

The economy won't "turn around", the budget cannot be balanced, the public debt cannot paid off - ever. And you can't even question the validity of the public debt - despite the fact that it is 100% fraudulent. Fed Res never lent 13+ trillion dollars to the U.S. Government.

The budget cannot ever be balanced. //www.city-data.com/forum/15751751-post5.html

The U.S. government went bankrupt in 1933. The private sector joined it in 1935. The "State of Emergency" has been in force and effect since 1933.

The enumerated American's obligation is reported here:
U.S. National Debt Clock
Each share of this debt is over $43k - in dollars!

Since 1933, no dollars have circulated or have been spent. Dollar bills (Federal Reserve Notes) are not dollars. See: Title 12 USC Sec. 411.

-----
Money Reference:

Article 1, Section 8. U.S. Constitution.
The Congress shall have Power
...To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
...To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Article 1, Section 10. U.S. Constitution
No State shall ... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any ... Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, ...

Note: only gold and silver coin PAY DEBT. And if Congress had the power to create money, it wouldn't need the power to borrow it. Congress can only coin money (stamp bullion).

TITLE 12,CHAPTER 3,SUBCHAPTER XII,sec. 411. Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption
" Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in LAWFUL MONEY on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank."

The dollar bill (FRN) is an IOU, issued on the authority of Congress to BORROW money.
Ahem - where's the lawful money lent to the Congress?

LAWFUL MONEY - "The terms 'lawful money' and 'lawful money of the United States' shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States..."
Title 12 United States Code, Sec. 152.

"Dollars, or units; each to be of the value of a Spanish milled as the same is now current, and to contain three hundred and seventy-one grains and four-sixteenths parts of a grain of pure, or four hundred and sixteen grains of standard, silver."
"Eagles each to be of the value of ten dollars or units, and to contain two hundred and forty-seven grains and four eighths of a grain of pure, or two hundred and seventy grains of standard gold."
--- Sec. 9, Coinage Act of 1792, January 1792

According to Title 31 of the U.S. code, a silver dollar complies with the original Coinage Act.

31 USC Sec. 5112. Denominations, specifications, and design of coins
(e)(1) ...weight 31.103 grams;
(e)(4) have inscriptions ... 1 Oz. Fine Silver ... One Dollar

Fort Knox Depository (allegedly) holds 147.4 million ounces of gold bullion, if coined, would amount to approximately 3 billion dollars (pursuant to the Coinage Act).
World wide bullion is estimated at 5.3 billion ounces, which computes to 106 billion dollars.
Where's the 13 trillions in gold coin, lent to the Congress?
[Don't confuse the dollar bill price for gold bullion. Dollar bills were repudiated in 1933, and have no par value - they're worthless.]

REAL MONEY - Money which has real metallic, intrinsic value as distinguished from paper currency, checks and drafts.
Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1264

MONEY - In usual and ordinary acceptation it means coins and paper currency used as a circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate. Lane v. Railey, 280 Ky. 319, 133 S.W. 2d 74, 79, 81.
Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1005

NOTE - An instrument containing an express and absolute promise of signer (i.e. maker) to pay to a specified person or order, or bearer, a definite sum of money at a specified time. An instrument that is a promise to pay other than a certificate of deposit. U.C.C. 3-104(2)(d)
Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1060

TENDER - An offer of money ... Legal tender is that kind of coin, money, or circulating medium which the law compels a creditor to accept in payment of his debt, when tendered by the debtor in the right amount.
Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1467

[Note: FRNs are legal tender on the obligated party of those notes - the Federal government. . . AND the 305 million enumerated socialists.]

"Federal reserve notes are legal tender in absence of objection thereto."
MacLeod v. Hoover (1925) 159 La 244, 105 So. 305

All duly enumerated American socialists cannot object to the tender of the notes that THEY are obligated parties to. (thanks to FICA)

Recapping:

* Lawful money = gold / silver coin (aka real money)
* Money = lawful money or currency (i.e., certificates which are receipts for real money in the vault)
* Notes are not money, by law


The almost 14 trillion dollar public debt cannot be paid with debt instruments (FRNs). There is not enough gold bullion in the world to pay it. Nor can Congress question its validity despite being impossible to repay.

14th amendment, Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

YOUR Share = $43,585.23 - in dollars!
*(Based on the pre-bankruptcy statutes, a one ounce gold coin is equivalent to 20 unit dollars. Since silver was demonetized in 1873, the debt can only be computed in terms of gold coin.)
If the bullion (over 650 billion ounces) existed, YOUR SHARE OF THE OBLIGATION IS 2174.647 ounces of gold.
Gold price: 1246 FRNS / ounce (remember, Federal Reserve notes are not dollars).
Actual obligation, in "dollar bills" = $2,709,610.16

[head smack]
U.S. population = 309,089,003

Actual "dollar bill" value of the public debt = 837,510,703,491,248.47
837 trillions...
{does that rate as "impossible to pay"?}

What does it really mean?
The American people have been systematically robbed for over 3 generations by usurers and by profligate idiots in the government, who blindly entered into impossible contracts, that can not be questioned, and who have instituted socialist chains that no recipient dare rip off.

Welcome to the United Socialist States of America, soon to be the People's Democratic Socialist Republic of America.

[walidm]

Originally Posted by Old Gringo

I predict that within a year, we'll be in a steep double-dip recession that'll make the first part look mild.

I suspect the Republicans will continue the diverted mission of crushing the Economy in pursuit of the Presidency.