The Middle Class Is Hurting,But Who's Middle Class? (wage, premium, Obama)

[scarabchuck]

Originally Posted by Tonyafd

Back in the sixties the middle class was the Cleavers from Leave it to Beaver. College tuition was $600 a semester at a moderately expensive private college and New York City colleges were virtually free. Even in recent years, SUNY schools were $5000 a year.

Update to the present -
Remember that the Cleavers lived in the suburbs. So now June and Ward are both working. They are struggling to insure that both the Beaver and Wally can both go to college. Ward's company cut his expected pension so Ward will now need to work until he is 67 years old to get Social Security. Ward and June both need cars but fortunately Wards car is a station car so it is the older one. June's school district where she was a teacher's aid merged with another district so she was laid off and will be forced to go on Social Security at 62. The property taxes for their address at #1 Happy Street have tripled over time and the Cleavers now pay $12,000 a year in both school and property taxes. A recent presidential election has elected a person friendly to globalization so Ward will consider himself lucky if he makes it to 67 without losing his job to a consulting firm that employs only foreigners on H-1b visas. Wally and the Beaver will be lucky to find jobs within a year of graduation with STEM degrees.

Sad but true in a lot of cases.

[dothetwist]

I consider ourselves and all our friends to be middle class. None of us are hurting; we retired at ages 50/51, travelling the world, now living outside US (but still own a home in US). Our siblings that still work are doing well; all 13 of our nieces and nephews are doing well, 11 of them have good jobs, enjoyable jobs to them; 2 are still in college.

All of us went to college (most graduated), don't do drugs other than weekend pot, don't abuse alcohol or opioids, don't break laws.

The so-called middle class that is hurting chose different life choices; waited around their old home towns for factories to reopen, etc.

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by janelle144

That is a good definition. The rich don't care if they get a healthcare bill they will pay as they go. It's the middle class that will be squeezed in the middle with this stinking healthcare bill.

All the merely rich that I know, net worth $1-10M, have HC insurance. It is a comparatively meager expense. I would assume that the filthy rich also have insurance.

I agree with you that we have a broad middle class HC OOP cost problem.

If I were king I'd give back 1/3 of all HC OOP costs at the year's end if the patient/family tows their HC line and doesn't overuse HC services. Via tax credits or rebates. Similar to our gift to seniors with Medicare.

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by scarabchuck

I don't think those original money factors count anymore. 20 years ago $100k was a lot of money. If you earned that now, you could not continue to have the same lifestyle that one did 20 years ago.

You might if you saved/invested, kids out of the house and the house paid off.

I make less than I did in the '80's, yet my lifestyle is higher.

[scarabchuck]

Originally Posted by Hoonose

You might if you saved/invested, kids out of the house and the house paid off.

I make less than I did in the '80's, yet my lifestyle is higher.

I live a better lifestyle now as well, but it took work and adjustment. There is no way I could sustain my 20 year ago lifestyle now, on the same money. It was tough then, now one would be buried, in debt.


So basically you proved my point. It took investing, kids out of the house and your home paid off to live a better lifestyle on less money.

[gladhands]

Originally Posted by Tonyafd

Back in the sixties the middle class was the Cleavers from Leave it to Beaver. College tuition was $600 a semester at a moderately expensive private college and New York City colleges were virtually free. Even in recent years, SUNY schools were $5000 a year.

Update to the present -
Remember that the Cleavers lived in the suburbs. So now June and Ward are both working. They are struggling to insure that both the Beaver and Wally can both go to college. Ward's company cut his expected pension so Ward will now need to work until he is 67 years old to get Social Security. Ward and June both need cars but fortunately Wards car is a station car so it is the older one. June's school district where she was a teacher's aid merged with another district so she was laid off and will be forced to go on Social Security at 62. The property taxes for their address at #1 Happy Street have tripled over time and the Cleavers now pay $12,000 a year in both school and property taxes. A recent presidential election has elected a person friendly to globalization so Ward will consider himself lucky if he makes it to 67 without losing his job to a consulting firm that employs only foreigners on H-1b visas. Wally and the Beaver will be lucky to find jobs within a year of graduation with STEM degrees.

Ward Cleaver was a commercial banker who went to work in a suit and had a secretary. He was upper-middle class.

[Jstarling]

Originally Posted by janelle144

I know one thing. The middle class is shrinking into the poverty class with all the jobs gone. Some say in the future we will only have the poor and the rich but if jobs come back that won't happen. Let's work on getting jobs back.

Lowest unemployment rate in over a decade. There are jobs; problem is that for undereducated they don't pay enough to live on. Employers are struggling with addicted employees. Jobs are not located where the biggest needs are. The problem is bigger than simply "bringing back" jobs (which don't even exist anymore.)

[tamajane]

Originally Posted by dothetwist

I consider ourselves and all our friends to be middle class. None of us are hurting; we retired at ages 50/51, travelling the world, now living outside US (but still own a home in US). Our siblings that still work are doing well; all 13 of our nieces and nephews are doing well, 11 of them have good jobs, enjoyable jobs to them; 2 are still in college.

All of us went to college (most graduated), don't do drugs other than weekend pot, don't abuse alcohol or opioids, don't break laws.

The so-called middle class that is hurting chose different life choices; waited around their old home towns for factories to reopen, etc.

Sounds a lot like upper middle class. It is not uncommon for the upper middle class to compare themselves to actual middle class or even working class as a way to patronize them.
Why not just tell them they are losers rather than pretending to be one of them.
Happens all the time, there are even studies and books written about it - I suppose if you see them as peers you can feel you did better on an even field and blame them for their failure to retire at 50. If you see them as lower class they may have an excuse to be poorer and nice people don't bully the less fortunate.

[s1alker]

Americans (particularly in the lower classes) will have to get used to living on less. Gone are the days where you got paid big bucks and retired with a pension to turn a bolt on an assembly line. If you are not going to study STEM, you might find yourself in financial turmoil.

[tamajane]

Originally Posted by s1alker

Americans (particularly in the lower classes) will have to get used to living on less. Gone are the days where you got paid big bucks and retired with a pension to turn a bolt on an assembly line. If you are not going to study STEM, you might find yourself in financial turmoil.

Can we get over this, pensions and high paying unskilled factory jobs have been gone for a long time. It is OTHER jobs being affected now - skilled professions.

Saying to just adapt and get used to it is weak minded, this will affect all of us except for the very top 1%.