The Middle Class Is Hurting,But Who's Middle Class? (Alabama, dollar, school)

[scarabchuck]

Originally Posted by tamajane

Can we get over this, pensions and high paying unskilled factory jobs have been gone for a long time. It is OTHER jobs being affected now - skilled professions.

Saying to just adapt and get used to it is weak minded, this will affect all of us except for the very top 1%.

Thank you for posting. Too many people think it is just the button pushing assembly line jobs that are gone. It is far more reaching than that.


Just studying STEM doesn't ensure one anything, other than trying to compete with people from all over the globe, many willing to do the same work for far less just to get out of whatever country they are from and move here.

[skycaller23]

Originally Posted by tamajane

Can we get over this, pensions and high paying unskilled factory jobs have been gone for a long time. It is OTHER jobs being affected now - skilled professions.

Saying to just adapt and get used to it is weak minded, this will affect all of us except for the very top 1%.

White collar jobs started to get offshored in the early 90's.

And just like manufacturing no one noticed or cared until too many people couldn't find decent paying jobs.
The lure of "cheap products" kept Americans happy.

[scarabchuck]

Originally Posted by skycaller23

White collar jobs started to get offshored in the early 90's.

And just like manufacturing no one noticed or cared until too many people couldn't find decent paying jobs.
The lure of "cheap products" kept Americans happy.

That early ? I didn't see it, or maybe notice it until early 2000.

[gladhands]

Will have a serious misconception about what the middle class was in the 60s. 60s middle class isn’t that difficult to achieve. Raise your family of four in a two bedroom bungalow without central air. Don’t get cable, Internet or cell phones. You don’t have to live in a great school district because you don’t really expect your kids to go to college. Buy your kids two pairs of pants and one pair of shoes for the year. Have one car.

, 60s working class is modern day working poor, and it’s quite achievable.

[petch751]

Originally Posted by Listener2307

It's really not necessary to use large amounts of debt to maintain a lifestyle - at least not under normal conditions. If a job has been lost or something like that, consumer debt may be necessary until normalcy returns.
But ya gotta pay the debt off.

There actually is a price to be paid for living debt free, though. A few months ago I tried to co-sign for my grandson's first car (he just graduated from college and got his first real job) and the bank turned me down. Flat!
The problem, they said, was the fact that I hadn't used the credit system in many years. Credit score was 750 or something like that, but the bank said I had no credit history! Go figure; we own our home outright, two rental properties outright, and both cars. I have enough money in the bank to pay cash for his car, but there is that ol' credit history thing.
Evidently my habit of paying off credit card every month doesn't work.
But still, I like the way we live.

FWIW: We never have made an awful lot of money. Had a few good years, but most of it was fairly ordinary income.

There is a better way. Years ago I subsidized my life with credit and round and round the rat race wheel I went (my credit rating was very good). Then I paid all debt off, also learned how to manage money and live within my means. Then I started using cc debt again only this time, I paid the balance in full each month while getting air mile and hotel points. I now get a free yearly vacation and a higher credit rating. Many people couldn't handle credit cards like this for many reasons.

- I work hard so I deserve attitude,
- I'll pay the minimum (hopefully it will go away) attitude,
- The want what glitzy Hollywood's selling on a beer budget attitude,


The Poor: Spend every penny and still believe politicians who promise to legislate their prosperity (think day to day),
The Middle Class: As they become more successful, they buy liabilities and they end up in the rat race (think month to month - monthly payments)
The Rich: Buy assets that provide income to pay for their liabilities, (think long term - providing for their futures)

Many people use consolidation when trying to get out of debt. The problem is, all they've done is divert all debt to one debt, which free's up the previously used credit availability. Since they didn't learn to live within their means and how to manage their money they end up getting themselves in deeper trouble.

Then as I've mentioned before, poor people look at those people and want that but either are ignorant to how they live that way or ignore it while demanding more.

[s1alker]

Originally Posted by gladhands

Will have a serious misconception about what the middle class was in the 60s. 60s middle class isn’t that difficult to achieve. Raise your family of four in a two bedroom bungalow without central air. Don’t get cable, Internet or cell phones. You don’t have to live in a great school district because you don’t really expect your kids to go to college. Buy your kids two pairs of pants and one pair of shoes for the year. Have one car.

, 60s working class is modern day working poor, and it’s quite achievable.

I think working poor is better than 60s middle class. Especially with all the public assistance you get. Someone makes a poverty wage at Walmart yet has the latest iphone with premium data plan.

[moneill]

I have always loved this discussion.

We all have such different views of what middle class is -- for me it represents that class that gets squeezed. I don't have a number -- maybe because it can be so different depending on where you live.

But yeah I'd like Trump and friends to tell me what they define as middle class so I know what they are talking about.

As seen here we all have such different perspectives.

[skycaller23]

Originally Posted by scarabchuck

That early ? I didn't see it, or maybe notice it until early 2000.

Tech jobs. Corporations cried there was not enough American college graduates to fill the job positions.
It was back office tech at first.

[petch751]

Originally Posted by moneill

I have always loved this discussion.

We all have such different views of what middle class is -- for me it represents that class that gets squeezed. I don't have a number -- maybe because it can be so different depending on where you live.

But yeah I'd like Trump and friends to tell me what they define as middle class so I know what they are talking about.

As seen here we all have such different perspectives.

Yep, the middle class end up getting squeezed. That's because of ignorance of people who support policians who use rhetoric to mislead the people who don't know any better. The rich are unfazed by tax increases because they know how and hire experts that help guide them reduce their taxable income. The poor are always convinced they will get a piece of the take. The middle class, ends up footing the bill. Lets take Democrats and Obama for example.. This is not meant to be an Obama bashing post but to get people to think about something. The constant drum beat (rhetoric) went like this....

"The rich can afford to pay a little more. Make them pay their fair share."

Notice the rhetoric was based on "income" made within a "ONE" year tax period. High income does not equal high net worth. Just because you make high income this year does not mean you made it previous years or will make it in the future. If you made high income the question is "Did you have the time to build your net worth?" But people mistakenly believe that high income means you are rich. Politicians who promote that thinking are misleading people who don't know any better in the politicians effort to funnel more money to the government. These politicians know better.

[residinghere2007]

Originally Posted by HappyTexan

What ever happened to the working class..the blue collar folks ? Did they magically become the middle class ? Label someone and they feel important. Label them and the feel rich.
Give them unlimited debt (2005 timeframe) and they act and spend like they are rich.

Take away all that funny money (credit, debt, call it what you may) and now they realize they are not really rich, nor middle class.

The working class is finding out that they never were really rich.

Honestly, I agree with this.

IMO when people say "the middle class is hurting" they are speaking primarily of unskilled laborers. Thirty to 40 years ago, the blue collar, unskilled laborer made out pretty good income wise. Today, people need to have some sort of skills to make a decent income and due to them not having any skills they are "hurting."

That is why they want back those unskilled manufacturing positions. FWIW, there are many skilled manufacturing positions - but they require an education/training. People cannot just go get a good paying job today right out of high school like they used to be able to do between the 1950s and 1970s in particular.

The world is different. Those people will continue to "hurt" until they start learning a skill, trade, or getting some sort of degree/credential.