The Middle Class Is Hurting,But Who's Middle Class? (salary, healthcare, how much)

[Motion]

So what do politicians mean when they say "the middle class"? Good question. Each politician may be talking about a different group of Americans, but the message many voters hear is that the politician is talking about them.

FactCheck.org: Is there a standard, accepted definition of what constitutes the "middle class"? (http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_there_a_standard_accepted_definition_of.html - broken link)

For years I've been hearing about America's shrinking middle class and how it's being negatively affected by this or that policy. But how can we determine if the middle class is being hurt by whatever if we can't even determine exactly who is middle class?

[janelle144]

I know one thing. The middle class is shrinking into the poverty class with all the jobs gone. Some say in the future we will only have the poor and the rich but if jobs come back that won't happen. Let's work on getting jobs back.

[chiaroscuro]

Originally Posted by Motion

For years I've been hearing about America's shrinking middle class and how it's being negatively affected by this or that policy. But how can we determine if the middle class is being hurt by whatever if we can't even determine exactly who is middle class?

My definition of middle-class: Someone who works. On the low end of the scale, they make just a little too much to qualify for any form of government help. That's the low end.

On the upper end, is anybody who makes a good amount of money, but not enough to pay their own medical bills without insurance. A real medical issue could be covered in cash by a "rich" household, but a middle-class or upper-middle-class household will need insurance or risk losing everything.

Those are two broad markers I use to define it. I have no idea what the official definition is, and don't care.

[janelle144]

Originally Posted by chiaroscuro

My definition of middle-class: Someone who works. On the low end of the scale, they make just a little too much to qualify for any form of government help. That's the low end.

On the upper end, is anybody who makes a good amount of money, but not enough to pay their own medical bills without insurance. A real medical issue could be covered in cash by a "rich" household, but a middle-class or upper-middle-class household will need insurance or risk losing everything.

Those are two broad markers I use to define it. I have no idea what the official definition is, and don't care.

That is a good definition. The rich don't care if they get a healthcare bill they will pay as they go. It's the middle class that will be squeezed in the middle with this stinking healthcare bill.

[Pandamonium]

Originally Posted by Motion

For years I've been hearing about America's shrinking middle class and how it's being negatively affected by this or that policy. But how can we determine if the middle class is being hurt by whatever if we can't even determine exactly who is middle class?

Actually, middle class had three different classes, lower, middle and upper. And it used to be posted that to even hit lower middle class was making 100,000 and up and this was probably 15 years ago. It wasn't that long ago. And I got that information from a government site. In fact, I think I got it from the WH site.

I remember this because I had to do something for school and I had an argument with my father.Not so much an argument, but he said to back it up and I did. And I made him look this up and his salary put him into right above what used to be called upper working class. Barely. His response was, I have done all of this and I am not even considered middle class.

To me, that was very telling. Primarily because that it isn't necessary for the actual dollar amount ......but the perception.

The baseline is there. The people that are doing the bitchin' are more than likely, by that 15 year old baseline, mid-upper working class. But, hey you can throw a beans and wiener sob story out there if you need to.

[Bulldogdad]

Originally Posted by Pandamonium

Actually, middle class had three different classes, lower, middle and upper. And it used to be posted that to even hit lower middle class was making 100,000 and up and this was probably 15 years ago. It wasn't that long ago. And I got that information from a government site. In fact, I think I got it from the WH site.

I remember this because I had to do something for school and I had an argument with my father.Not so much an argument, but he said to back it up and I did. And I made him look this up and his salary put him into right above what used to be called upper working class. Barely. His response was, I have done all of this and I am not even considered middle class.

To me, that was very telling. Primarily because that it isn't necessary for the actual dollar amount ......but the perception.

The baseline is there. The people that are doing the bitchin' are more than likely, by that 15 year old baseline, mid-upper working class. But, hey you can throw a beans and wiener sob story out there if you need to.

Your anecdote sounds like an episode of All in the Family. Your Micheal the meat-head and your Dad is Archie the bigot. It must be late. Is it late?

[Pandamonium]

Originally Posted by bulldogdad

Your anecdote sounds like an episode of All in the Family. Your Micheal the meat-head and your Dad is Archie the bigot. It must be late. Is it late?

It could be late.

I have to be up in 3 1/2 hours. It could be early. It is all relative. Do we have a baseline?

[Motion]

How much of determinig your class level has to do with your location? I hear how some cities and states are more expensive to live in than others. So if you live in a city that's expensive to live in like San Francisco or NYC then some people may find those cities to be more of a struggle financially than other cities or towns where the cost of living is cheaper. So I would think the cost of living of your location can shape your perception of whether or not you're working,middle or upper class. Someone paying San Francisco rent may feel wealthier just by leaving that city for a city where rent is cheaper.

[HappyTexan]

What ever happened to the working class..the blue collar folks ? Did they magically become the middle class ? Label someone and they feel important. Label them and the feel rich.
Give them unlimited debt (2005 timeframe) and they act and spend like they are rich.

Take away all that funny money (credit, debt, call it what you may) and now they realize they are not really rich, nor middle class.

The working class is finding out that they never were really rich.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by HappyTexan

What ever happened to the working class..the blue collar folks ? Did they magically become the middle class ? Label someone and they feel important. Label them and the feel rich.
Give them unlimited debt (2005 timeframe) and they act and spend like they are rich.

Take away all that funny money (credit, debt, call it what you may) and now they realize they are not really rich, nor middle class.

The working class is finding out that they never were really rich.

How elitist! Back in the heyday of the steel mills, many steelworkers made more than my father, who was an engineer in the steel industry. My father-in-law was a union painter; he did pretty well. He put three kids through college, had a great retirement during which he lived to age 97, and had money left over when he died.