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Those who could not work would be cared for. But even those who can not do physical work can do many things like watch children, answer the phone, etc. Those just too old or in that bad of shape would be cared for by others in the commune that qualify and choose to be caregivers.
Nobody would be forced to work or live in the commune. There just wouldn't be other welfare. Still, the choice would be theirs.
The other reason it's a good idea is to prevent child abuse and child neglect. The welfare crowd needs structure and guidance. They've already proven they're not capable of making it on their own and work is a good thing. Being productive is positive, being a parasite certainly isn't.
Deep down the welfare people don't feel good about being useless eaters which is why so many turn to drugs and alcohol. Putting in a hard day of work actually benefits people.
Giving people money for nothing is about the stupidest policy any liberal ever thought up. Letting them earn it is much kinder.
And you're right, it would be voluntary because if they don't want in the program then out they go but they get nothing then.
The point of the commune (from the word "community") would not only be to provide basic necessity in exchange for work, but to socialize people and teach them how to integrate into a society as a functioning member of that society.
One of the problems with our very poor is that they have zero understanding of how to behave in a functioning society. Their world is too often filled with isolation, lack of cooperation and violence as a means of relating to one another.
There is something special that happens when people start at the bottom and work their way up. And there is something special that happens when people are forced by a common necessity to rely on each other. They learn not just about their own needs, but about humanity and the needs of others. They learn not only a strong work ethic, but also the fundamental principles of community and social contract.
The experience of the commune would be designed to teach these things as well as to provide basic necessity. The project would ultimately be intended to cleanse the soul and lift the poor out of the cycle of poverty through character building as intended by natural order. It would be a reproduction of the time line followed by all successful cultures and people and promoted by every major religion East or West.
The ultimate goal would be to re-integrate people back into society as functioning members. It would be a lot better than what our current system is producing.
Instead of the vast majority of our tax dollars going to social programs which are largely corrupt and unhelpful, why don't we try something that works?
I suggest building large welfare communes in key cities and making them self sufficient. Basically, people would be housed in economy apartments and assigned jobs. Those able work tend farms, maintain the property, make repairs, watch the children, care for the elderly, prepare the food, etc. They could also have schools in which people could be taught trades or other skills.
Now I know they have tried building housing projects in the past but they didn't address the issue of idol hands and minds and they were not adequately monitored. I would have cameras in every hallway and around the complex to deter crime as well as drug testing. And if people screw up, they get kicked out or other disciplinary action such as job demotion.
As incentives, people would qualify for better jobs or bigger apartments etc. They could even have a community cable TV package and use premium channels as incentive.
This would provide for people's needs and it would teach them about the importance of hard work and getting along with others. Ultimately, people would learn the skills they need to function in society and leave the commune or they could even graduate to supervisory positions such as security staff.
What is wrong with this plan?
I haven't read a single post in this thread, so I'll bet I'm about to write what at least one or two others already have, but here it goes anyway...
There are a lot of people who do not care about being self-sufficient. Give them a meal, a roof, and a cot, and that's all they ask. Anything more isn't worth working for. These folks have long since discovered that they can sit down and do nothing and before they starve, or even get very hungry, some sympathetic person will provide them with the basics.
This is not to say that welfare-type stuff isn't necessary, because it is. Way back in the 1700's in France, the Aristocrats had all the money. The rank-and-file citizen had next to nothing. The Aristocrats got their money because money makes money. And one generation wills its fortune to its children. Also, a smart guy is more likely to make money when compared to a dumb guy. And genetics being what they are, dumb folks usually beget dumb kids. Hence, the poverty likely goes from one generation to the next with no break in sight. Ultimately a revolution took place (at least it did in France). But a revolution doesn't necessarily have to take place. The solution is to essentially pay a nominal sum to the lower classes and keep them satisified. Welfare.
Having said all of that, a lot of those who are on the lower end of the scale have legal issues and/or mental problems. Communal housing these characters doesn't sound too workable to me. That is, unless the commune has cells with locked doors. And you know what they call a commune of cells with locked doors.
I remember in the 80's in Ca. they gave a choice to many train for a job or get kicked off welfare, my wifes works with quite a few gals who were in this program and it worked for them, gave them some pride and most of them turned out as great employee's I never understood why the program failed, I guess the ratio wasn't cost effective.
The problem with training programs is there has to be a job after the participants finish. Most likely it failed because not enough were able to find jobs, though obviously, it worked great for those your wife works with.
Last edited by pvande55; 09-25-2010 at 03:19 PM..
Reason: syntax
First take a really good look at this website, then reread your opening post. They are way different. If you installed cameras and invaded peoples privacy in a Kibbutz which many have lived in their whole life, I don't think they would stand for it. To the permanent residents this is their home, a good home that they don't need to leave and they decide who stays there, not the government. Visitors are not there because they are welfare people or criminals or drug addicts. they come to stay for entirely different reasons. If the residents were forced to take in criminals, welfare lay abouts and had to have police supervision inside their home because the visitors were that untrustworthy, wouldn't they just move?
First take a really good look at this website, then reread your opening post. They are way different. If you installed cameras and invaded peoples privacy in a Kibbutz which many have lived in their whole life, I don't think they would stand for it. To the permanent residents this is their home, a good home that they don't need to leave and they decide who stays there, not the government. Visitors are not there because they are welfare people or criminals or drug addicts. they come to stay for entirely different reasons. If the residents were forced to take in criminals, welfare lay abouts and had to have police supervision inside their home because the visitors were that untrustworthy, wouldn't they just move?
There are obvious differences but I'm not talking about joining the two.
First, the cameras would be in the common areas, not in people's homes. Second, the people wold have a choice of playing by the rules or trying to make it on their own on the outside. And there would be no freeloaders. People would be assigned jobs and attendance would be taken. You don't work, you lose privileges. You keep missing work, you get the boot.
Eventually, the goal would be to lift people up to where they would want to leave and get a regular job. And crime would not be tolerated.
Think of the place as being ran much like an Army base only with obvious differences. Instead of national defense being the product, self sufficiency would be the product.
Right now around half of all government expenditures go toward social welfare programs. I bet we could cut that down to less than 10% with a managed communal living system.
Just curious if you all understand that nearly every state has welfare TIME LIMITS. This isn't a life long thing. You can be on welfare so many months during your lifetime, and then you're done. The benefits were limited during the CLINTON administration, and the limits are set individually by the states--it's not a federal government issue. If you have a problem with your state, talk to your state representative.
Just curious if you all understand that nearly every state has welfare TIME LIMITS. This isn't a life long thing. You can be on welfare so many months during your lifetime, and then you're done. The benefits were limited during the CLINTON administration, and the limits are set individually by the states--it's not a federal government issue. If you have a problem with your state, talk to your state representative.
Mine has no time limits. I bet there are a number of loopholes to those limits. We have one generation after another of welfare recipients. The fact is, half our government expenditure goes to welfare programs. That is a lot of money.
Just curious if you all understand that nearly every state has welfare TIME LIMITS. This isn't a life long thing. You can be on welfare so many months during your lifetime, and then you're done. The benefits were limited during the CLINTON administration, and the limits are set individually by the states--it's not a federal government issue. If you have a problem with your state, talk to your state representative.
In states where the lifetime welfare limits DO apply (which is the majority) it ONLY applies to cash aid.
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