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Old 09-25-2010, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,548 posts, read 22,898,343 times
Reputation: 9883

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How about we just let the Bush Disaster expire and all pay our part to balance the budget?
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:02 PM
Status: "Biden won." (set 22 days ago)
 
13,683 posts, read 8,821,272 times
Reputation: 6553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
How about we just let the Bush Disaster expire and all pay our part to balance the budget?
I actually agree with you. We should extend the middle class tax cuts for two more years and then let them expire and let the upper class tax cuts expire at the end of this year.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:04 PM
 
1,009 posts, read 2,108,950 times
Reputation: 605
Quote:
Originally Posted by 70Ford View Post
Penn and teller explain obamanomics - be aware, a lot of F bombs come on the videos. It's hilarious though. And....so true.

"I’m not taking pie from you, I’m giving pie to me. And when we’re both out of pie, we’ll go find somebody else who has more pie.”

Sounds simple enough: (Can't post link, but here's the google search link... it's about 1 minute or so in length.)


penn and teller explain obamanomics - Google Search=
And the right-wing propaganda machine churns onward

That video WOULD be funny and clever, except Obama has no such "Obamanomics" to speak of. You know what would be radical, and more in line with the lie that Fox is trying to spread about Obama? Moving the tax rate on the top brackets back to where they were after WWII, when we were in our prime as a nation. Go look it up if you don't know what those rates were. Here's a tiny clue: It was less than 92%. Use this new technology called google. Instead of feeding conservatives facts all day, creating dependency, I shall teach them how to search for themselves.

Did those astronomical tax rates on the wealthiest Americans kill jobs? Did anybody call those presidents communists? Did anybody call CLINTON a communist maoist socialist for his tax rates? No.

Bush temporarily cut the Clinton taxes, and those tax cuts are due to expire. Leaving taxes at the exact same rates as they were under Clinton, and half as much (or less) as they were in our American Century of glory. If Obama is a socialist marxist communist for tax rates the same as Clinton, then EVERY PRESIDENT BEFORE CLINTON is also a marxist, socialist, communist, maoist, wealth-spreading tax-and-spend liberal!!! Be consistent and don't ignore your history conservatives!!!

PS: please respond with facts from reality, not opinions or ad hominem attacks this time. Seems every day I point out the history of taxation compared with the history of economic success, nobody has a factual response, only spin. Facts only, please.
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:07 PM
 
48,507 posts, read 90,797,891 times
Reputation: 18204
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
With our national debt at $14 trillion and rising, with deficits of $1.5 trillion per year, the spending cannot go on forvever. However, nearly all liberals refuse to acknowledge and understand that spending, particularly entitlements, need to be cut dramatically to avoid insolvency.

I would like to know- from liberals- what are your solutions to cutting the debt and the deficits?


Keep in mind that-

1. By 2025, debt will be 109% GDP. By 2025, depending on interest rates, potentially 80% of the federal budget will go to service the debt.

Federal Debt Could Reach 100% of America (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/68816 - broken link)

Congressional Budget Office: Federal Debt And The Risk Of A Fiscal Crisis « Social Capital Review


2. If we taxed "the rich" (i.e. those making over $250K per year) at a 100% tax rate (slavery- no money for even food or housing), it would only raise $1.3 trillion per year. We would still have an annual deficit. Obviously, slavery is illegal and that option would exist for one year only.

Barack Obama's Expensive Domestic Agenda Will Cost America's Middle Class - WSJ.com

3. A 15% VAT tax would raise an estimated $1.4 trillion. With that, we would still have an annual deficit.

With VAT Tax on the Table, Progressives Sound Alarm « The Washington Independent

Consider a Value-Added Tax - Up Front Blog - Brookings Institution

4. Current military spending is at 23% of the budget. If we cut the military 100% (no military at all) we would still have a deficit.

http://www.concordcoalition.org/file...ndOut_FY07.jpg

5. Entitlement and social programs account for 52% of the budget currently- the lion's share of federal spending.



With that information, and the refusal to cut any social program (and having added a new massive program in Obamacare), how are we to avoid insolvency and fiscal collapse? The answer-"deficits don't matter" does not wash when we reach levels anticipated in 2025. At that time, debt certainly does matter. Any solutions?
Basically the solution is either growth ;cuts or both. No matter what without controlling future spending to elminate its growth as has happened even growth will not do anyhthing unless its really high.Its like adding to credit card amounts while increasing you salary at same amount or lower.we ned to cut because future growth wil not be that high to suport paying the debt off and funding porgrams at curent cost.The worse part about taxing is it remove money from the priavte sector;increases cost of goods and loers both investment and number of jobs.Right now we are seeing just the resulkts of lower demand and uncertainity in furutre taxes from the deficit by everyone.Not just business but everyoe that can save orl ower debvt with uncertain future cost.
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:16 PM
 
1,009 posts, read 2,108,950 times
Reputation: 605
We had this conversation in another thread, here was my solution (which is only fantasy. You'd be hard pressed to accomplish one of these things with your available political capital, let alone all of them.

Really. Both parties are to blame, and all they do is point fingers (and convince us to point fingers at eachother).

But no, it IS mathematically possible to pay off the debt. The answers are not popular ones, however:

-Close every loophole that corporations use to avoid taxes in America
-Raise taxes on every citizen regardless of income level
-Get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan as soon as logistically possible
-Enact a blanket budget cut of ten percent for every single government agency
-Fix the FAKE healthcare bill so that government can negotiate with drug companies
-Allow generic and cheap drugs from other places like Canada
-Only allow tax cuts for companies based on how many American citizens they hire, and what the wages are. Create tax incentives for actual job creation, not just for existence.
-Tax the 668 Trillion dollar derivatives market and any profit made from it, including revenue streams and payouts.
-Tax anything on Wall Street that has nothing to do with creating jobs or helping small businesses.
-Get rid of most of our nuclear stockpile, which costs billions of dollars just to maintain in readiness until that one special day when 7 billion humans all become scrambled eggs.
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:20 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 1,412,316 times
Reputation: 790
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatyousay View Post
GE????????? Surely you jest. GE is a darling of the democratic party.
Ik nabe hat gehenmik salel vous etu.

Last edited by newhandle; 09-25-2010 at 08:44 PM..
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:21 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 1,412,316 times
Reputation: 790
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
They've been saying their solution for months now..tax the rich.
Jour moi telema quaztifualema. Konnea suz mui sehate labanmzi.

Last edited by newhandle; 09-25-2010 at 08:45 PM..
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:25 PM
Status: "Biden won." (set 22 days ago)
 
13,683 posts, read 8,821,272 times
Reputation: 6553
Quote:
Originally Posted by newhandle View Post
A progressive tax system is one of the basic tenants of capitalism. Please read Adam Smith.
Conservatives and Republicans don't understand economics. They think that someone the rich and the ultra rich getting richer while the middle class and the poor lose ground is somehow going to improve the economy. They are wrong. Liberal policies created the middle and helped it grow, which created greater demand for goods and services. Thank God Reaganism was proved an utter failure, but that still doesn't stop them from beating a dead horse.
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:27 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 1,412,316 times
Reputation: 790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guamanians View Post
good points Now, what specific parts of the military budget should get cut? are you willing to live with a low-cost military?
Eta moniq zechivutimas tu viseit imchahave moiinzoqit. Nadi GOP zu omlicta Gates hat proseuma zut la et nacti tu sehate. Nour esta Norfolk odo Newport News USS Bush it evani au machti au velicha mon suz at eta ma the tie laion wjk. Und her tahhtzvic lous moin.

Last edited by newhandle; 09-25-2010 at 08:48 PM..
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:31 PM
 
6,743 posts, read 8,816,821 times
Reputation: 1854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guamanians View Post
good points Now, what specific parts of the military budget should get cut? are you willing to live with a low-cost military?
"low cost military" that's almost funny...

I wonder if Rumsfeld found the $1.3 trillion the Pentagon couldn't account for back in '01?
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