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Old 10-01-2010, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,612 posts, read 12,837,211 times
Reputation: 3132

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Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Those rights apply to every human being in the world. It is their obligation to overthrow by any means necessary those who would restrict them. That is the impetus for the DoI. Who again is restricting Palestinians' NATURAL right to own firearms?

Only a progressive elitist would think those rights are exclusively meant for one nation.
The BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS embodied in the US Constitution may well apply worldwide (but some of the rights in the US Constitution do NOT exist in other countries) but the US Constitution itself ONLY applies to the US.

Your rights as a US citizen as embodied in the US Constitution end at your borders, deal with it already.
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,275,532 times
Reputation: 3826
Quote:
Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post
Er, seems to me, they have plenty of guns. How do you think they can shoot israelis and each other? And for caring so much about palestinians, you do realize that the christians are HEAVILY persecuted by the muslims, right?
Christian Palestinians are tormented and walled off just as much as the muslim ones. If I wanted to transport my AKs (as a gesture of good ol' American humanitarian aid) to those Christian Palestinians to defend themselves against people who would displace them vis-a-vis settlements, wanna guess at who would want to stop me? It would be Israel authorities.

Quote:
And again, the US constitution does not apply outside of the USA.
You keep saying that, but that has nothing to do with my assertion that gun rights are universal and natural rights granted to all humans on earth. Once again, I must ask you who is denying those people their NATURAL rights to own firearms?
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:04 PM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,447,180 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Christian Palestinians are tormented and walled off just as much as the muslim ones. If I wanted to transport my AKs (as a gesture of good ol' American humanitarian aid) to those Christian Palestinians to defend themselves against people who would displace them vis-a-vis settlements, wanna guess at who would want to stop me? It would be Israel authorities.



You keep saying that, but that has nothing to do with my assertion that gun rights are universal and natural rights granted to all humans on earth. Once again, I must ask you who is denying those people their NATURAL rights to own firearms?
Their governments perhaps?
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
5,412 posts, read 4,237,720 times
Reputation: 916
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Christian Palestinians are tormented and walled off just as much as the muslim ones. If I wanted to transport my AKs (as a gesture of good ol' American humanitarian aid) to those Christian Palestinians to defend themselves against people who would displace them vis-a-vis settlements, wanna guess at who would want to stop me? It would be Israel authorities.



You keep saying that, but that has nothing to do with my assertion that gun rights are universal and natural rights granted to all humans on earth. Once again, I must ask you who is denying those people their NATURAL rights to own firearms?



If I said everyone had a natural right to have a willing sex partner, it wouldn't make it reality.

I'm sure if you tried to supply guns to kurds, Turkey would try to stop you. Yet why aren't you outraged over that?
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,612 posts, read 12,837,211 times
Reputation: 3132
The "right to bear arms" is NOT universal..........
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,275,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
The BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS embodied in the US Constitution may well apply worldwide (but some of the rights in the US Constitution do NOT exist in other countries) but the US Constitution itself ONLY applies to the US.
Exactly my point. I do not expect to assert my rights outside the US. One man does not equate to a resistance movement. It takes a group of citizens who live under oppressive conditions to CLAIM those rights by whatever means necessary.

Quote:
Your rights as a US citizen as embodied in the US Constitution end at your borders, deal with it already.
Has NOTHING to do with my assertion that Palestinians can own firearms if they wish. They merely need to CLAIM that right from anyone who would stop them, just as we staked that claim from the Brits.
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,275,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
The "right to bear arms" is NOT universal..........
Of course it is a universal right, don't be ridiculous. It's a NATURAL right of property ownership, available to any human being by their Creator.
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
5,412 posts, read 4,237,720 times
Reputation: 916
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Exactly my point. I do not expect to assert my rights outside the US. One man does not equate to a resistance movement. It takes a group of citizens who live under oppressive conditions to CLAIM those rights by whatever means necessary.



Has NOTHING to do with my assertion that Palestinians can own firearms if they wish. They merely need to CLAIM that right from anyone who would stop them, just as we staked that claim from the Brits.
How come I don't see this form of outrage when Turkey disarms kurdish groups? Could it be because Jews aren't involved?
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
5,412 posts, read 4,237,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Of course it is a universal right, don't be ridiculous. It's a NATURAL right of property ownership, available to any human being by their Creator.
Something tells me that there were no fire arms in the garden of eden, in fact, they weren't invented until probably the 14th or so century...

So people have an inalienble right to things that didn't even exist?

Does this property right also include the right to child pornography?
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,275,532 times
Reputation: 3826
Quote:
Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post


If I said everyone had a natural right to have a willing sex partner, it wouldn't make it reality.
Of course you have that right, and you can make it your reality if you wish. You merely have to CLAIM that right by either direct (overthrow of government) or indirect (hiding from government) means. The logical course of action would be for outsiders Palestinians to secretly transport weapons for civilian use, for legitimate self-defense purposes, and for Israel to allow its citizens to own firearms (which of course it doesn't because Israel is a social democracy, an Obama-eque socialist utopia of sorts)

Quote:
I'm sure if you tried to supply guns to kurds, Turkey would try to stop you. Yet why aren't you outraged over that?
It does. Everyone in the world has the right to be armed.
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