Will this Clementi thing lead to liberals making it a hate crime to

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by betamanlet

Okay, I'll put in in language that liberals can understand, using a group liberals dislike, Israelis.

If a liberal activist breaks into a Israeli's home, and films him doing whatever, for the purpose of getting something to make israel/jews look bad, would that be a hate crime?

Or does the victim need darling status for it to constitute a hate crime?

Liberals don't dislike Israelis.

And a liberal activist who breaks into someone's home, anyone's home, should be charged with that crime first and foremost. If his motivation to commit the crime was because of bias, and that bias can be demonstrated or proven in a court of law, then additional penalties could be imposed due to hate crime legislation.

[mb1547]

Originally Posted by betamanlet

Okay, I'll put in in language that liberals can understand, using a group liberals dislike, Israelis.

If a liberal activist breaks into a Israeli's home, and films him doing whatever, for the purpose of getting something to make israel/jews look bad, would that be a hate crime?

Or does the victim need darling status for it to constitute a hate crime?

If you break into someone's home, it's burglary (unless you are a law enforcement officer with a warrant, or I guess if you suspect they're a terrorist--I don't know exactly how the patriot act changed that aspect of the law on warrants without checking). Burglary is a crime. If you break in for any of the reasons listed in the hate crimes definition I linked there (for instance, specifically because he is a Jew) then it would fall under the hate crimes definition. Read the definition. And now I'm off to work...

[betamanlet]

Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge

Liberals don't dislike Israelis.

And a liberal activist who breaks into someone's home, anyone's home, should be charged with that crime first and foremost. If his motivation to commit the crime was because of bias, and that bias can be demonstrated or proven in a court of law, then additional penalties could be imposed due to hate crime legislation.

Including if the hate was directed at a religion, like christianity?

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by betamanlet

If you look at my topic title, it's about whether this is/shouldbe considered a hate crime.

Can you imagine how much speech will be limited if this is determined to be a hate crime?

You could be charged with a hate crime for LOTS of things if this is allowed. Do you get it?

I think I've amply demonstrated that I do get it. Personally, I have some profound problems with hate crime legislation as a concept, because I am wary of policing people's thoughts. However, motivation has always been a part of how we determine the seriousness of a crime. The taking of a life is classified in our court systems, from manslaughter to murder in the first degree. Based on intent, based on motivation, based on whether it was planned or spontaneous or accidental. Hate crime legislation adds more detail to the classification system of crimes, and has to do more with the penalties involved than anything else.

I've already stated in the other thread about this, that based on what we know about what happened, I don't think this is a hate crime, nor do I think the prosecution could make that case. Bias is difficult to prove. These are two young people, they will not have a plethora of writings or statements to establish such bias, and they already have people coming forward disputing the accusation.

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by betamanlet

Including if the hate was directed at a religion, like christianity?

Of course.