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Where did you come up with that? Do you have some data?
Can you explain why:
1) an individual would CHOOSE a lifestyle where they will be discriminated against? 2) some homosexual individuals know they are gay even before they become pubecent and before they even have an understanding of gay and lesbian meanings.
Can you explain the above? And also find a link that proves no one is born gay? I'd be interested in that.
Interesting that another poster asked you to provide proof that one is born a homosexual, and it is noted that no data or link was provided. .
However you ask why someone would "choose a lifetyle where they will be discriminated against" This question is always thrown out there when it is asserted that it is a choice. I guess their attraction outweighs societal disapproval. But there are any number of choices people make that have this disapproval but peope still choose to make them.
The fact that there is no gene found to code for homosexuality is pretty convincing data-yes the lack of this gene. Because there are those out there trying very hard to "prove" it. It is hard to prove a negative.
If you show me the proof that this gene exists I will glady accept the assertion that it is not a lifestyle choice.
Until then I am afraid the ball is in your court so to speak.
Interesting that another poster asked you to provide proof that one is born a homosexual, and it is noted that no data or link was provided. .
However you ask why someone would "choose a lifetyle where they will be discriminated against" This question is always thrown out there when it is asserted that it is a choice. I guess their attraction outweighs societal disapproval. But there are any number of choices people make that have this disapproval but peope still choose to make them.
The fact that there is no gene found to code for homosexuality is pretty convincing data-yes the lack of this gene. Because there are those out there trying very hard to "prove" it. It is hard to prove a negative.
If you show me the proof that this gene exists I will glady accept the assertion that it is not a lifestyle choice.
Until then I am afraid the ball is in your court so to speak.
The majority of the religious right defends their right to keep prayer in schools and businesses. Because the seperation of chruch and state only goes so far, and they have the freedom to practice their beliefs publically, as long as those beliefs are not imposed by law on the public.
Great! Cool! I have no problem with a prayer group taking place in my workplace as long as it is optional and as long as the other religions can also gather at work to pray if they choose. That's one of many freedoms I love about this country.
So, given the importance and value of one's freedom to practice meaningful lifestyles, why does the majority of the religous right condem and deny the rights of individuals who choose to love someone of the same sex?
Without quoting scripture (because for many of us, we do not subscribe to the same Biblical philosophy) can someone give a valid and reasonable argument that same sex marriage should not be tolerated while freedom of speech and freedom of religion are?
I welcome a debate based on reason and logic, perhaps even science. Not hate, fear based scripture quoting.
is homosexuality a religion to you? How is it even relevant to the discussion of freedom of religion?
How is it even relevant to the discussion of freedom of religion?
It is relevant in the way that this country is great for the freedoms we have. We are free to practice any religion we wish to for example.
It's my view (and I know many others here have differing views) that living a gay life is as meaningful and real as religion and other freedoms we are blessed with in America.
It's my belief that one day most people will come to understand that gay people are not out to cause harm to society. They simply want to be recognized as having the same liberties and rights. They love each other like we do.
No.
It is relevant in the way that this country is great for the freedoms we have. We are free to practice any religion we wish to for example.
It's my view (and I know many others here have differing views) that living a gay life is as meaningful and real as religion and other freedoms we are blessed with in America.
It's my belief that one day most people will come to understand that gay people are not out to cause harm to society. They simply want to be recognized as having the same liberties and rights. They love each other like we do.
I don't think anyone believes that homosexuals cannot have "meaningful lives" however I don't get your correlation to religion. Like the previous posters asked do you consider homosexuality some type of religion? I'm confused.
Also you want homosexuals to have the same "liberties and rights" as other citizens of the U.S. Well they in fact have every right and liberty afforded to any of our countrymen.
And I don't it is under disupte that homosexuals "love each other like we do" That sentence almost make it seems as if they are a different species than that rest of us lol!
So in fact if the above are your main worries/concerns for homosexuals then I believe you can rest easy.
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I don't think anyone believes that homosexuals cannot have "meaningful lives" however I don't get your correlation to religion. Like the previous posters asked do you consider homosexuality some type of religion? I'm confused.
Also you want homosexuals to have the same "liberties and rights" as other citizens of the U.S. Well they in fact have every right and liberty afforded to any of our countrymen.
And I don't it is under disupte that homosexuals "love each other like we do" That sentence almost make it seems as if they are a different species than that rest of us lol!
So in fact if the above are your main worries/concerns for homosexuals then I believe you can rest easy.
As to the religion question, no I don't see homosexuality as a religion. But I see both religion and homosexuality as something meaningful to many, and a great desire to be able to live this meaningful lifestyle without discrimination.
As for having every right and liberty, I'm not so sure. What about marriage, and what about serving in our armed forces without being forced to stay quite about your partnership with the same sex?
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I don't think anyone believes that homosexuals cannot have "meaningful lives" however I don't get your correlation to religion. Like the previous posters asked do you consider homosexuality some type of religion? I'm confused.
Also you want homosexuals to have the same "liberties and rights" as other citizens of the U.S. Well they in fact have every right and liberty afforded to any of our countrymen.
Actually, gay people don't have many of the same legal rights and benefits as other Americans--many of those rights and benefits are granted only through marriage. Can gay couples file joint tax returns, or get an exemption from gift taxes or estate taxes from their partner? Can they file for social security death benefits, or make emergency medical decisions for their partner? I've linked to a whole list of "marriage rights and benefits"--care to take a look?
I don't want to speak for the OP, but I think her question was if there was any valid reason at all, outside of individual religious beliefs, that gay partners shouldn't be allowed to marry. She wasn't very direct about her point, but I'm reading it as this: many people justify banning gay marriage because of their faith--I don't know about you, but I haven't heard a single, rational explanation for a ban outside of that. If this comes down to a question of religious values, then why aren't the religious beliefs of people who think gay marriage is ok equally acceptable? Do you think it's the role of the government to legislate religious standards, and to determine which religion is correct, and which is not? If absolutely no harm is done to the community or to other individuals by someone's actions, do you think the government has the right to restrict someone's rights as a citizen just because they don't like them? That's what it comes down to.
If this is entirely an issue of government dictating religious values, then at least be honest about it. I don't have anything personally invested in gay rights--I've been married for 25 years and I have 5 kids. I just can't stand hypocrites--many of the same people yammering on about smaller government want to legislate every aspect of personal behavior--that's about as big as government can get.
Marriage Rights and Benefits - Free Legal Information - Nolo (http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/article-30190.html - broken link)
Actually, gay people don't have many of the same legal rights and benefits as other Americans--many of those rights and benefits are granted only through marriage. Can gay couples file joint tax returns, or get an exemption from gift taxes or estate taxes from their partner? Can they file for social security death benefits, or make emergency medical decisions for their partner? I've linked to a whole list of "marriage rights and benefits"--care to take a look?
I don't want to speak for the OP, but I think her question was if there was any valid reason at all, outside of individual religious beliefs, that gay partners shouldn't be allowed to marry. She wasn't very direct about her point, but I'm reading it as this: many people justify banning gay marriage because of their faith--I don't know about you, but I haven't heard a single, rational explanation for a ban outside of that. If this comes down to a question of religious values, then why aren't the religious beliefs of people who think gay marriage is ok equally acceptable? Do you think it's the role of the government to legislate religious standards, and to determine which religion is correct, and which is not? If absolutely no harm is done to the community or to other individuals by someone's actions, do you think the government has the right to restrict someone's rights as a citizen just because they don't like them? That's what it comes down to.
If this is entirely an issue of government dictating religious values, then at least be honest about it. I don't have anything personally invested in gay rights--I've been married for 25 years and I have 5 kids. I just can't stand hypocrites--many of the same people yammering on about smaller government want to legislate every aspect of personal behavior--that's about as big as government can get.
Marriage Rights and Benefits - Free Legal Information - Nolo (http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/article-30190.html - broken link)
mb1547, Yes, your post precisely says what my original post was trying to ask. Thanks for putting it into words that I did not seem to articulate as well
And in particular about the hypocracy. I think that is what grates at my nerves the most. You said it very well. Conservatives typically want the government to legislate marriage and or "moral" behavior.....yet this is typically the same group who cannot stand big brother government.
I can't stand big brother government either. Which is why I don't see justification for gov't to decide what is "moral" within the realms of consenting individuals.
Hence the very core of my original thought: Right wing wants the cake (less government) and wants to eat it, too (well, ummm, less government EXCEPT that gays should not be able to get married......)
As for having every right and liberty, I'm not so sure. What about marriage, and what about serving in our armed forces without being forced to stay quite about your partnership with the same sex?
Absolutely right. In my mind, that's a bigger issue than marriage, and I'm glad that two federal judges have recently declared Don't Ask Don't Tell to be unconstitutional.
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