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I find this concept, which more or less says that authorities, above all the police and military, are the only units of society allowed to use force in a country which adheres to such a concept, a bit worrisome. Not that I wanted to become violent myself, I am a pacifist. I reject possessing or carrying any arms. Nor do I support lynching, i.e. civilians using force, thinking they bring about justice. That's what we have courts for.
But given a certain percentage of rogue and troubled guys still entering the police force and military for dubious reasons, I am not a fan of the idea either that policemen are above civilians, that for instance they can beat demonstrators and not seldom get away with it (not least thanks to the mutual protection among policemen and soldiers should one of them be sued).
The whole thing seems very one-sided. I must confess that I don't trust anyone wearing a uniform, that is my default attitude (i.e. the other way round as with civilians). They don't seem to be part of society anymore, but on the other side so to speak (though this varies from country to country). I don't automatically trust in policemen's ability to behave correctly just because they are policemen.
In first-world countries the major issue seems to be demonstrations, where quite frequently things escalate and innocent demonstrators get beaten just like the dangerous demonstrators throwing big stones or Molotov cocktails. I see the problem that peaceful, politically interested people increasingly shy away from demonstrations as they are just not in the mood for being beaten just because they have an opinion and want to show it, maybe because they feel that there is no other way anymore to make themselves heard.
Does that monopoly on violence even produce violence in the first place? Sometimes it seem that the mere presence of policemen or soldiers makes people more aggressive than they would otherwise be.
What are you talking about? There are many instances in which private citizens can use force.
I think what Neuling is trying to say, why are the police covering up for overzealous cops hiding behind their badge pretending because they have a badge, that they are above the law and can do as they please without repercussions. In other words, the cops are acting like the schoolyard bullies that pick on the weak and powerless. And the big problem is, you can't sue the individual cop for violating your rights or for beating your brains out when you have done nothing wrong. I mean sometimes people need a good spanking by the cops because their parents never gave them any (yes I believe in the right to spank my child if he misbehaves), but sometimes you have officers clearly using excessive force and abusing their powers (think of the elderly Texas lady that got tasered because she said she wasn't getting out of her truck)
I wonder how peaceful the original poster would be if he was standing there trying to do his job while "peaceful" demostrators are throwing bottles of urine and bags of fecces at him and taunted him with all sorts of insults and physical attacks. Oh, and for his crack about the military. People serving in the military give up certain rights you have as a civilian. One of which is to be tried twice for the same crime; once in military court and once in civilian court. Something else you don't know about the military, and I hope it hasn't changed since last I was in which was 1996, is that some things are taken care of within ranks. Sometimes our punishments are worse than the non-judicial punishment the big bird could dish out. For major offenses, we sent that person to the captain (I was Navy). We had some guys show up drunk for duty. We gave them a few hours of punishment, but it lasted for about a week. They had to clean the top of the evaporators (flash type distilling plant). No big deal? The top of the evaporators was covered in fiberglass insulation. One of the two fell asleep so we dragged him length ways across the evaps (15 to 20 feet) a few times then let him sleep it off. More serious offenses we tried to secretly report to the proper authorities.
I find this concept, which more or less says that authorities, above all the police and military, are the only units of society allowed to use force in a country which adheres to such a concept, a bit worrisome. Not that I wanted to become violent myself, I am a pacifist. I reject possessing or carrying any arms. Nor do I support lynching, i.e. civilians using force, thinking they bring about justice. That's what we have courts for.
But given a certain percentage of rogue and troubled guys still entering the police force and military for dubious reasons, I am not a fan of the idea either that policemen are above civilians, that for instance they can beat demonstrators and not seldom get away with it (not least thanks to the mutual protection among policemen and soldiers should one of them be sued).
The whole thing seems very one-sided. I must confess that I don't trust anyone wearing a uniform, that is my default attitude (i.e. the other way round as with civilians). They don't seem to be part of society anymore, but on the other side so to speak (though this varies from country to country). I don't automatically trust in policemen's ability to behave correctly just because they are policemen.
In first-world countries the major issue seems to be demonstrations, where quite frequently things escalate and innocent demonstrators get beaten just like the dangerous demonstrators throwing big stones or Molotov cocktails. I see the problem that peaceful, politically interested people increasingly shy away from demonstrations as they are just not in the mood for being beaten just because they have an opinion and want to show it, maybe because they feel that there is no other way anymore to make themselves heard.
Does that monopoly on violence even produce violence in the first place? Sometimes it seem that the mere presence of policemen or soldiers makes people more aggressive than they would otherwise be.
If you are strictly talking about protests and demonstrations, then I do not agree with your statements. People choose to go to these demonstrations, and they do get (to varying degrees) violent. Most of the time the cops are just trying to do their job. The cops rarely get overly violent because they know that they are being filmed by some liberal punk who thinks he has a right to do whatever he wants just because he is at a protest. It's like a mosh pit at a metal concert. The little guys think that they can take cheap shots at the big guys, and it's all fun & games. But when the big guy hits back they play the victim. I say... if you can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Now, I am no fan of cops... they never do anything for me except hand out speeding tickets. I always get stuck behind them in line at Krispy Kreme too
I'm just not buying your story about the protests & demonstrations.
If you are strictly talking about protests and demonstrations, then I do not agree with your statements. People choose to go to these demonstrations, and they do get (to varying degrees) violent. Most of the time the cops are just trying to do their job. The cops rarely get overly violent because they know that they are being filmed by some liberal punk who thinks he has a right to do whatever he wants just because he is at a protest. It's like a mosh pit at a metal concert. The little guys think that they can take cheap shots at the big guys, and it's all fun & games. But when the big guy hits back they play the victim. I say... if you can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Now, I am no fan of cops... they never do anything for me except hand out speeding tickets. I always get stuck behind them in line at Krispy Kreme too
I'm just not buying your story about the protests & demonstrations.
I wrote about demonstrations because there is always some abuse of power here (there have been such cases recently in Stuttgart). Though of course there are always violent demonstrators, that doesn't justify even one peaceful demonstrator getting hurt. And let's face it, when there are thousands of demonstrators, policemen usually can't tell who threw a stone or whatever. Sometimes they think they saw this or that person throwing the stone, but later it turns out they were wrong and beat an innocent person.
As I said, in my view the problem often is the mere presence of policemen as they become the enemy rather than a new law or whatever the original topic was.
Just like politicians policemen and soldiers are our employees, we pay their salaries with our tax money, so they should behave accordingly.
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