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Old 10-11-2010, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
2,314 posts, read 4,788,068 times
Reputation: 1946

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Look in the books of Joshua and Judges for starters.
You didn't answer my question:

Compared to what?

What religion's history is it savage when compared to?

Last edited by Nafster; 10-11-2010 at 08:55 PM.. Reason: Rephrasing

 
Old 10-11-2010, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,757,550 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafster View Post
You didn't answer my question:

Compared to what?

What religion's history is it savage when compared to?
Compared to civilizations/people who do not "sacrifice" living beings to absolve guilty feelings, do not commit genocide in order to "cleanse" the world for a god, or do not use cruel and unusual punishment such as stoning for perceived moral crimes.
 
Old 10-11-2010, 09:05 PM
 
915 posts, read 1,187,829 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Yes it does sound familiar. Brings to mind the Israeli Soldiers that killed peaceful, unarmed civilians in international waters for carrying food and medical supplies.

19 Year-Old Turkish-American Killed by IDF in Gaza Flotilla Attack « Tikun Olam-

JOJO are these these the peaceful protesters you were talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaiMj...eature=related

Name for me one country that tolerates such peaceful protesters.
 
Old 10-11-2010, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,757,550 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsm113 View Post
JOJO are these these the peaceful protesters you were talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaiMj...eature=related

Name for me one country that tolerates such peaceful protesters.
The man, who is also an American citizen, was already shot by the IDF before the IDF embarked the Flotilla. BTW, why did the IDF trespass on the Flotilla anyway?
 
Old 10-11-2010, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
2,314 posts, read 4,788,068 times
Reputation: 1946
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Compared to civilizations/people who do not "sacrifice" living beings to absolve guilty feelings, do not commit genocide in order to "cleanse" the world for a god, or do not use cruel and unusual punishment such as stoning for perceived moral crimes.
And Islamic civilizations didn't (and still don't) do this?

Christian civilizations didn't?
 
Old 10-11-2010, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,757,550 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsm113 View Post
JOJO are these these the peaceful protesters you were talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaiMj...eature=related

Name for me one country that tolerates such peaceful protesters.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-7-oYuY3Y4
 
Old 10-11-2010, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
7,835 posts, read 8,423,886 times
Reputation: 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post

They’re trying to handing them a country THAT THEY TOOK FROM THEM in the first place. The creation of Israel in 1947 was a power play by the Western Powers of that time against the Arab states to appease the Jewish people and alleviate their own guilt for not preventing the Holocaust. They literally shoved U.N resolutions down the throats of Arab nations in the region to create Israel and then Jewish settlers literally threw Palestinians off of land they had owned for generations often at the point of gun and the threat of death. Often these Palestinians could take nothing that they couldn't carry.

THE PALESTINIANS WERE NEVER COMPENSATED FOR THE LAND AND POSSESSIONS THAT THEY LOST!

Now put yourself in a similar situation. You'd be pretty pissed off if this happened to you, your family and your people.
That's an extremely distorted view of historical fact.

If you want to look at ancient history, that land was ruled by Jews as a Jewish state for hundreds of years.

Brief History of of Palestine, Israel and the Israeli Palestinian Conflict: The Jewish Kingdoms of Ancient Judah and Israel

The archeological record indicates that the Jewish people evolved out of native Cana'anite peoples and invading tribes. Some time between about 1800 and 1500 B.C., it is thought that a Semitic people called Hebrews (hapiru) left Mesopotamia and settled in Canaan. Canaan was settled by different tribes including Semitic peoples, Hittites, and later Philistines, peoples of the sea who are thought to have arrived from Mycenae, or to be part of the ancient Greek peoples that also settled Mycenae.

According to the Bible, Moses led the Israelites, or a portion of them, out of Egypt. Under Joshua, they conquered the tribes and city states of Canaan. Based on biblical traditions, it is estimated that king David conquered Jerusalem about 1000 B.C. and established an Israelite kingdom over much of Canaan including parts of Transjordan. The kingdom was divided into Judea in the south and Israel in the north following the death of David's son, Solomon. Jerusalem remained the center of Jewish sovereignty and of Jewish worship whenever the Jews exercised sovereignty over the country in the subsequent period, up to the Jewish revolt in 133 AD.

And if you only want to look at the recent history, since around the time of its renewal as a Jewish state, the truth is much more complex and not quite as one-sided as you present.

Brief History of of Palestine, Israel and the Israeli Palestinian Conflict: Modern History


In Jerusalem, Arab riots broke out on November 30 and December 1 1947. Palestinian irregulars cut off the supply of food, water and fuel to Jerusalem during a long siege that began in late 1947. Fighting and violence broke out immediately throughout the country, including ambushes of transportation, the Jerusalem blockade, riots such as the Haifa refinery riots, and massacres that took place at Gush Etzion (by Palestinians) and in Deir Yassin (by Jews). Arab Palestinians began leaving their towns and villages to escape the fighting. Notably, most of the Arab population of Haifa left in March and April of 1948, despite pleas by both Jewish and British officials to stay.

. . .

In the initial stage, notable successes were scored by the Egyptian and Syrian armies. In particular, the Egyptians, backed by tanks, artillery, armor and aircraft, which Israel did not have, were able to cut off the entire Negev and to occupy parts of the land that had been allocated to the Jewish state. In his book, "In the Fields of Phillistia," Israeli peace activist Uri Avnery recounts how the Egyptian army attempted a massed armored strike against Tel Aviv. Palestinian attempts to set up a real state were blocked by Egypt and Jordan. Jordan kept to its agreement not to invade areas allocated to the Jewish state, but Syria and Egypt did not. The strike was turned back by a few recently arrived Messerchmitt aircraft, bought from Czechoslovakia. The Syrians made some advances into the territory that had been allotted to the Palestinian state.


I highly recommend you read the entire thing. Make sure you have time to get through it all and really absorb it -- it's long.
 
Old 10-11-2010, 09:33 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,286,124 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
On November 28, 1947, the UN decided to establish 2 states in the area of the British Mandate of Palestine - one Jewish & one Arab. The Arab nations did not agree to this and they wanted all or nothing without any consideration for the Jewish population. So immediately the Palestinian Arabs started attacking the Jewish population. The British at this point didn't do much to stop the Palestinian Arabs. But the British continued until they left the area to stop the Jewish population from protecting themselves from these attacks by not letting them arm themselves.
The British left the area on May 15, 1948 and immediately the surrounding Arab nations' armies attacked the newly formed State of Israel. The Arab Governments suggested to the Palestinian Arabs to leave their homes so as not to be in the way of the fighting and telling them that they would return as victors to the area. Of course, this did not happen as Israel was not destroyed.
What right did the British have to decide when and how land that both Palestinians and Jewish people live on should be divided? What right did the United Nations have? One of the unfortunate vestiges of colonialism was the creation of nations, and territories that consisted of people that were culturally, or historically incompatible or ill-suited to live in together got thrown together as nations. The result has been a series of wars and internal conflicts in Asia, Africa, and the Middle East for the last 60 years.

The bottom line is this; NO negotiation was ever done to acknowledge, resolve and compensate Palestinians for the land, possessions, and businesses they lost. The modern state of Israel is a creation of the British, The United Nations and Zionist Jewish people. It was a land grab pure, plain and simple. Until the grievances of the Palestinian people are resolved in a equitable fashion there will NEVER be peace in the region. Israel is an armed camp and will remain so until this is resolved. Like I said in an earlier post either there is a compromise reached or Israel gets destroyed or Israel destroys any Arab military threat to its existence. This is the ONLY way this plays out.

Do not blame the Arab people for not acknowledging Israel's right to exist.
 
Old 10-11-2010, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
7,835 posts, read 8,423,886 times
Reputation: 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post

It was a land grab pure, plain and simple.
Like hell it was.

Your posts are beginning to sound more and more like anti-Semitic bull****. You want the Jews to compensate the "Palestinians" so bad, then why don't you demand that the surrounding Arab states compensate the Jews while you're at it, hmm? I suspect I know the answer to that one.

Ignore.
 
Old 10-11-2010, 09:58 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,666,305 times
Reputation: 9985


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