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Old 01-15-2008, 10:41 PM
 
309 posts, read 365,134 times
Reputation: 111

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluskyz View Post
IMO a somewhat mixed bag. I recall a professor telling our class that as distasteful as it may be to some increasing Gov't. controls are inevitable--that it was an inborn "problem of democracy". He theorized that as society advances we will get less moral, much less ethical, more skilled at finding loopholes and pinholes and much more agressive at pursuing material gratifications. Human tendacies like the survival instinct, fear, greed and others would leave us with little other choice but to legislate and enforce or perish in the hands of one another.
As i look back (15+ yrs.) it becomes much clearer than when I heard this.

On the other hand steering our country on unchartered waters for the sake of fame or to appease the upper crusts of society is taking a very dangerous course especially if it does'nt work. This could qualify as detrimental steering, or control. Many free-trade zealots back in 1993 including our Pres. pushed NAFTA. Looked O.k. on paper to some but was vigorously opposed by many, including Richard Gephardt, Bryon Dorgan and Ross Perot. Clinton failed to secure binding side agreements with then Pres. Salinas of Mexico, to create labor, workplace and environmental protections. Not taking into account the vast differences in living standards between Mex. the US & Canada.
The lies and alibis continued and are too many to list and are mostly with us today. Among them is the lie that 170,000 US jobs would be created annually. Actually a million US jobs were lost as a result of NAFTA and the US trade deficit with Mexico is 9 times as large today as it was when NAFTA was signed.
Many of us are likely to hear a large sucking sound of economic vitality being siphoned beyond our borders till we are deceased. I haven't heard any admission of errors by our "leaders" or any real action to righten the ship!
There's no doubt in my mind too that Clinton really screwed up when he authorized NAFTA. This country has LOST far more than it has or ever will gain from it!
No doubt in my mind either....that when the Democrats hold the power......they suck the blood and life out of every American and cater to the whims of every special interest group out there and in doing so.......HURT the economy and the overall state of this nation just as bad and often...... far worse than the Republicans. BUT.........over the course of the last 2 to 4 decades......I have also seen just how much misery is bestowed upon the American People when the Republicans have been in control.....and they BOTH have equally contributed to a methodical and increasingly more noticeable elimination of RIGHTS and LIBERTIES that ARE, IMO.....beyond UNCONSTITUTIONAL at this stage!
Both favor Corporate interests anyday....over those of the People!
Lifelong, CAREER Senators and Congressmen along with ineffectual legislative procedures, court appeals and cases and such with the ACLU and the Supreme Court.......ALL HAVE sealed the fate of our former FREEDOMS we once enjoyed as Americans!
Can anyone here deny this?
Does anyone here think its time for BOTH parties to LOSE the power they have held for far too long?
I sure as hell do!
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:10 AM
 
3,728 posts, read 4,868,480 times
Reputation: 2294
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous View Post
That is far from reality. The platform for Republicans consistently has been less government regulation, not more. At the same time, Democrats have consistently pushed for government to have more centralized control.

The current administration has made some decisions that are contrary to the Republicans' 'small-government' philosophy, but you're mistaken if you think that Democrats are going to allot more power to the individual states.


For example, who is pushing for national health care?
Who wants tariffs on imported goods?
Who wanted a higher minimum wage?
Who wants stronger federal environmental controls?
Who pushes for stronger federal gun-control laws?
Who wants to increase gov't-controlled social security?
But the reality is that a lot of Republicans only oppose those things in rhetoric. How many Republicans have actually balanced a budget? How many Republicans have actually eliminated a government department?
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,936,034 times
Reputation: 36644
Taking too much control is what governments habitually do. Which is why we have a Constitution, and which is why the present government regards the Constitutilon as a suggestion.

My question for all of you is this: What will YOU do to stop the US government when you think it has gone too far? What did the Germans do to stop theirs?
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:40 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,864,597 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa_from_Debary View Post
It is typically a Republican kind of thing to act like they are the dissapproving parents of poor behaving children...hopefully once this adminstration is a memory the Democrats are in power...that will change.
Umm you mean Democrats don't try to run our lives???

Thats odd because it seesm quite a lot of the restrictions put in place are by Democrats.
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:45 AM
 
1,266 posts, read 2,508,122 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpdsag View Post
I was under the impression that our government was created to serve and protect. When was it changed to be the governing decision on all aspects of life. They were not supposed to be the deciding factor on issues such as welfare and child development. Shouldn't these things be decided by state level officials. My thought is that if the government would spend less time on these issues that could be handled by the state, then they could spend more time and effort on things like protecting our country. I think our forefathers would be shocked to see how the government is handled in this day and age.

What are your thoughts?
You are absolutely right. AND it will only get worse if the Democrats get in office. They want more government programs which likens it's self to socialism. Government's like that control people from cradle to grave. Vote federalism. Vote Thompson or Romney.
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Old 01-16-2008, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,936,034 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by crittersitter View Post
You are absolutely right. AND it will only get worse if the Democrats get in office. They want more government programs which likens it's self to socialism. Government's like that control people from cradle to grave. Vote federalism. Vote Thompson or Romney.
Would you rather have a government that takes care of people who cannot take care of themselves, or a government that tortures prisoners who have never had any due process and looks at a list of all the library books you have checked out (and decides whether to torture you or not on that basis), and threatens to arrest any librarian who tips you off that the government has been there snooping around?

The library in Traverse City Michigan has a sign up that says: "The FBI has not been here yet. Watch this sign". If the FBI comes, they will take down the sign. Which is the only way patrons can be informed that they are in danger, without subjecting the librarians to arrest as unlawful combatants under the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act.

What will YOU do to stop the government when it goes too far?
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Old 01-16-2008, 07:28 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,864,597 times
Reputation: 2519
Does anyone really think a Democratic President is going to be ANY different??

Sorry BOTH of the parties are only interested in power and to keeping it requires control of people and what they are doing.

The Democrats are no different than the majority of the Republicans nowadays...

But vote for the party of the little guy....
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:11 AM
 
711 posts, read 932,825 times
Reputation: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Would you rather have a government that takes care of people who cannot take care of themselves, or a government that tortures prisoners who have never had any due process and looks at a list of all the library books you have checked out (and decides whether to torture you or not on that basis), and threatens to arrest any librarian who tips you off that the government has been there snooping around?

The library in Traverse City Michigan has a sign up that says: "The FBI has not been here yet. Watch this sign". If the FBI comes, they will take down the sign. Which is the only way patrons can be informed that they are in danger, without subjecting the librarians to arrest as unlawful combatants under the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act.

What will YOU do to stop the government when it goes too far?
IMO it has gone too far many moons ago.

I prefer a Gov't. that takes care of American citizens who cannot or have legitimate difficulty taking care of themselves. The rugged individualists can term it what ever foul term they can think of. A Gov't. that places THEIR citizens first before others gets my vote anytime.

As far as stopping the selling of America by our "leaders" that is a large and complex issue that must be accomplished--whether we like it or not. Many say vote them out--that would help. In the case of this Congress not returning incumbents might be a good idea. However many of the deposed seem to hang around with their warped influence forever, as lobbiests, advisers etc. Also,with our electoral college and in other cases the special interests thrusts, the candidates put forth for our selection are those that pass the muster of the special interest groups--they feel they won't lose no matter which stooge we choose.
We as a people have been overdue for more "leader" discipline and political reform for some time. However, this lies in the hands of the "leaders". It is obviously difficult to force the wolf to release the hen once it tastes blood. The "because I can" alibi echos loudly in the halls of our Gov't.

They have their bases covered many times over. If the public at large slams the brakes on and keeps them there the corruption and deceit will have to be addressed. Numbers, unity, and aggressiveness are the keys. Sorry, the powers that be have already taken care of the unity part!
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