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Old 10-27-2010, 11:26 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis, IN
914 posts, read 4,334,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhound View Post
The more complicated the electronics.
The more something can go wrong.

Steve
Old electronics is more like it. I knew someone who was a missilier, and I have heard the equipment is not very up to date.
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:34 PM
 
29,912 posts, read 38,212,771 times
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Actually the electronics in the military have a very stringent inspection process. You only need to research mil-spec standards to see that.

I think you would probably be surprised how stringent those requirements are. They far outweigh the standards of IPC.

Each program requires a certain spec and in some cases they require an overlapping spec.
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:37 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 13,698,888 times
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Yes but even the best made old stuff breaks down. I suspect we will see some appropriations bill to the tune of double digit billions for upgrading our military infrastructure, a few billion more to actually change it out, a few billion more to train soldiers on the new upgrades, and a few billion more added to maintenance since it will require new people or training. To which in 10, 20, 30 years we will then sign another bill eliminating half our nuclear arsenal and making all these billions just vanish like a poof of smoke, its the military spending kinda way, no?
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:44 PM
 
29,912 posts, read 38,212,771 times
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Well I built, sometimes by hand, some of the electronics which we're talking about. I wouldn't claim, at all, that they're inferior. There was a fierce campaign to replace what was out-of-date (we worked on some programs on a cost +, meaning we built it and no matter what the cost we got that plus 10%). I worked for, what was at the time, GDATS (General Dynamics Advanced Technology Systems) which summarily, after the dot-com bubble burst, became GDAIS.com. It was actually a merger if you put it in business terms.

That doesn't mean I'm some sort of authority. I can just attest to the standards with which we stood by. There was more inspectors than actual producers.

This isn't to say there couldn't be mistakes, I was retained for several days while the FBI was called in over such a mistake.
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Old 10-28-2010, 12:25 AM
 
34,995 posts, read 37,814,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
"The problem appeared to result from the accidental disruption by a launch control center of communications connections from the missiles to all five control sites. All five centers had re-established contact with the weapons in about one hour.

"It was a hardware anomaly in the communications system that caused these signals to step on each other... experts were still working out the incident's details"


"Disruption of communications connections from the missiles to all five control sites." A hardware anomaly...? An anomaly?

I wonder why they thought they'd better make this public

Tn, that Brookings Inst study is a great complement. I liked this astringent sentence: "The uncoordinated and fragmentary manner in which the nuclear arsenal was produced and funded, with interservice rivalries, secrecy, failed projects and duplication, drove up the cost." And the study's suggestion: "There should be an annual audit of the nuclear arsenal and its costs, and the President should play a more active role in formulating nuclear weapons policy and requirements.... recommends greater public access to nuclear records. At a time when there is little urgency and reform can proceed calmly, these are salutary recommendations that Congress should heed." This was conducted in 1998; I don't know that it's been heeded particularly. But as civilians ("Go back to sleep... civilian" - Miracle Mile (1988)) we're not supposed to think about it....
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Old 10-28-2010, 09:57 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 13,698,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
"The problem appeared to result from the accidental disruption by a launch control center of communications connections from the missiles to all five control sites. All five centers had re-established contact with the weapons in about one hour.

"It was a hardware anomaly in the communications system that caused these signals to step on each other... experts were still working out the incident's details"


"Disruption of communications connections from the missiles to all five control sites." A hardware anomaly...? An anomaly?

I wonder why they thought they'd better make this public

Tn, that Brookings Inst study is a great complement. I liked this astringent sentence: "The uncoordinated and fragmentary manner in which the nuclear arsenal was produced and funded, with interservice rivalries, secrecy, failed projects and duplication, drove up the cost." And the study's suggestion: "There should be an annual audit of the nuclear arsenal and its costs, and the President should play a more active role in formulating nuclear weapons policy and requirements.... recommends greater public access to nuclear records. At a time when there is little urgency and reform can proceed calmly, these are salutary recommendations that Congress should heed." This was conducted in 1998; I don't know that it's been heeded particularly. But as civilians ("Go back to sleep... civilian" - Miracle Mile (1988)) we're not supposed to think about it....
There was something about the Brookings Institute article that struck me as well. In fact I was up late last night browsing through some information there and, well, I'm just into this sort of thing.


I recall an a discussion over Iran's nuclear ambitions where I offered a counter argument for the sake of playing devils advocate, the Adelphi Papers that suggested possibilities if everyone had a nuclear weapon that the world would be a safer place (or that no one had any). It is an argument and debate that still takes place today.

Of the over 5.5 trillion known to be spent on our nuclear arsenal, no one today even thinks about it, and it is a substantial portion of our military budget. So is our nuclear arsenal an actual deterrent?

If Iran is pursuing a nuclear weapon and as many people on this forum have suggested that as soon as they get one, they will use it. A similar argument has been made for Pakistan, Israel, and India at various points in time. So we ask ourselves, if these people were or are going to obtain a nuclear weapon and use it, then is ours acting as a deterrent? Who is it deterring?

If we honestly believe that Iran would use a nuclear weapon against us then we can obviously state that our massive nuclear arsenal does not in fact deter anyone, especially some second rate nation like Iran. There for, what are we spending all these billions on each year? Large paperweights?


As was also pointed out in the Brookings Institute article, our nuclear capability was developed over years and in various stages of technical development. With some sites having quite frankly antiquated, yet generally reliable systems. Consider this recent event which apparently isn't even an isolated case, it would beg one to wonder, do we need to seriously rebuild our nuclear infrastructure and how will we pay for it and is it worth it.

All questions that too few will ever ask in Washington.
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Old 10-28-2010, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
11,075 posts, read 27,477,131 times
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reminds me of crimson tide

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS4I2Z1RBIw
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:15 AM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,894 posts, read 17,789,396 times
Reputation: 6463
Wow so much for our Advanced Techanical Electronics Age! Happened before.
Is once even one too many times! For that kind of money, and we have these glitches. Should not happen. So much for our Technical Age.
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