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Old 11-14-2010, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Dublin, CA
3,811 posts, read 3,976,862 times
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:21 AM
 
31 posts, read 31,584 times
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No one loves welfare but it is necessary because Jesus and GOD said the poor will alway be among us. Without welfare system the "have-not" will take what they need from the "haves" So when you think about phasing out the welfare system think abou that. The poor and homeless are here to stay. There are many reasons why the poor is poor and not their choice.
The rich is getting richer while the poor is getting poorer. And the crime rate is rising.
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:46 AM
 
17,290 posts, read 27,679,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneDoeAmerican View Post
No one loves welfare but it is necessary because Jesus and GOD said the poor will alway be among us. Without welfare system the "have-not" will take what they need from the "haves" So when you think about phasing out the welfare system think abou that. The poor and homeless are here to stay. There are many reasons why the poor is poor and not their choice.
The rich is getting richer while the poor is getting poorer. And the crime rate is rising.

Once you have money, it's almost impossible to lose it unless you're a complete moron. The first million is always the hardest. After that, compound interest takes care of the rest.

MANY rich people work very hard for their money. MANY other rich people, do not. Quite frankly I'm more disgusted by an idle rich trust fund baby than a welfare queen. Where I live, we have ample supply of both.

Given the amount of resources spent propping up an economic system, fighting wars to keep supply lines and resources available "for the American people" (and for the profit of those who control resource distribution), the shear amount of time and government attention to developing the laws, rules and regulations that benefit business and the rich, and the efforts to keep the rich and their progeny "in the money" indefinitely, I never understood the cries froom the rich over the amount spent on handout style "welfare" (social security and medicare are paid for by those who use it).

Again, invading Nicaragua to protect American business interests there did not benefit people in the projects.

I also don't understand the logic.... as if people WON'T be poor if not for welfare. There were more poverty, destitute families, etc. before welfare than after welfare.

People on welfare do not lead good lives. Not even close to a normal middle class existence. If it seems they have "extras" its because someone is cheating the system and getting supplemental or under the table on the side.

Without anything else, welfare is not enough to live high on the hog. Why "the rich" are jealous of that, I will never know. Yeah, they don't work, but neither do prisoners.
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:37 AM
 
47,528 posts, read 65,371,128 times
Reputation: 22380
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Once you have money, it's almost impossible to lose it unless you're a complete moron. The first million is always the hardest. After that, compound interest takes care of the rest.

MANY rich people work very hard for their money. MANY other rich people, do not. Quite frankly I'm more disgusted by an idle rich trust fund baby than a welfare queen. Where I live, we have ample supply of both.

Given the amount of resources spent propping up an economic system, fighting wars to keep supply lines and resources available "for the American people" (and for the profit of those who control resource distribution), the shear amount of time and government attention to developing the laws, rules and regulations that benefit business and the rich, and the efforts to keep the rich and their progeny "in the money" indefinitely, I never understood the cries froom the rich over the amount spent on handout style "welfare" (social security and medicare are paid for by those who use it).

Again, invading Nicaragua to protect American business interests there did not benefit people in the projects.

I also don't understand the logic.... as if people WON'T be poor if not for welfare. There were more poverty, destitute families, etc. before welfare than after welfare.

People on welfare do not lead good lives. Not even close to a normal middle class existence. If it seems they have "extras" its because someone is cheating the system and getting supplemental or under the table on the side.

Without anything else, welfare is not enough to live high on the hog. Why "the rich" are jealous of that, I will never know. Yeah, they don't work, but neither do prisoners.
People on welfare often have much more food to eat than those who work for a living. They are even given cell phones now.

They can't think it's too bad because many of them continue to have babies while on welfare - not exactly trying to change anything for themselves. In fact many girls start on welfare at early ages and seem to make every effort to keep themselves on it.
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Old 11-14-2010, 02:48 PM
 
57,048 posts, read 32,074,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Besides the $3 trillion number being utterly false...

Policy Basics: Where Do Our Federal Tax Dollars Go? — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

That's a left-leaning policy analysis firm and in case you can't count that's 55% of the federal budget. Our welfare state far exceeds the cost of the DoD and the wars. But don't let facts get in the way, carry on.
Social Security isn't a welfare program, and neither is Medicare or Medicaid. And i happen to think that S-CHIP is a great program...welfare or not.

And even if you wanna consider them so...big deal! Taking care of fellow Americans SHOULD exceed the cost of DOD and the wars. Sorry, but i don't consider that to be a bad thing. Any country worth its salt should be doing the same.
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Old 11-14-2010, 03:59 PM
 
29,724 posts, read 37,266,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Social Security isn't a welfare program, and neither is Medicare or Medicaid. And i happen to think that S-CHIP is a great program...welfare or not.

And even if you wanna consider them so...big deal! Taking care of fellow Americans SHOULD exceed the cost of DOD and the wars. Sorry, but i don't consider that to be a bad thing. Any country worth its salt should be doing the same.
Sure it is...

Social Security Online
Quote:
The Social Security Act (Act of August 14, 1935) [H. R. 7260]


PREAMBLE

An act to provide for the general welfare by establishing a system of Federal old-age benefits, and by enabling the several States to make more adequate provision for aged persons, blind persons, dependent and crippled children, maternal and child welfare, public health, and the administration of their unemployment compensation laws; to establish a Social Security Board; to raise revenue; and for other purposes.
Social Security Online - History

Or at least it better be. Otherwise it would have been unconstitutional. The question isn't whether we should provide "general welfare" for the people but at what point is providing too much welfare a burden on the society of which it makes it complacent and unwilling to work. Communism would be an abomination of the general welfare clause.
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Old 11-14-2010, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
2,531 posts, read 2,776,969 times
Reputation: 4308
The basic problem with welfare is that it is no longer serving the purpose for which it was intended. Welfare programs were designed to provide relief to individuals and families that have hit a temporary rough spot in life. They have devolved into a way of life for many people. There are many who are receiving welfare payments who have never known another way of acquiring income. In many cases, they represent the third or fourth generation within their families that have existed primarily on government subsidies. Little thought seems to be given to the fact that these payments exist as a direct result of taxation placed upon their fellow citizens...many of whom, are themselves, one paycheck away from financial disaster.

There's a lot of blame to go around. Those receiving welfare payments should be required to make a legitimate attempt to get off the welfare rolls. There should be no stigma attached to needing temporary assistance, but when that need becomes an inter-generational addiction, we need to find a solution to the problem. The government (at all levels) is guilty of failing to provide the needed education and job training to adequately assist people to migrate from welfare status. The government also needs to admit the politically unpopular fact that there is a lot of welfare-fraud which is seldom investigated.
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Old 11-14-2010, 04:36 PM
 
57,048 posts, read 32,074,057 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Sure it is...

Social Security Online
Social Security Online - History
but at what point is providing too much welfare a burden on the society of which it makes it complacent and unwilling to work.
Obviously, the overwhelming majority of people collecting SS were more than willing to work.

And no matter what you say, it's not a welfare program in the way that YOU mean welfare. If you want to categorize it under the principle of "general welfare" as meant in the Constitution..then fine. I can live with that.

Still though...if welfare by ANY definition exceeds spending on DOD and wars, GOOD!! When we aren't spending money to build societies in Iraq and Afghanistan not to mention the cost of maintaining military bases in Germany, Korea, Japan, etc (when they should be paying for our presence there), then i'll complain about welfare to my fellow Americans if i see fit to do so...but not one day before.
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Old 11-14-2010, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Dublin, CA
3,811 posts, read 3,976,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomDot View Post
It's stupid to ask a person on welfare if they like being on welfare. They are certainly not going to admit it.
Sure they do. They happily admit it and laugh. They will laugh at you and everyone else giving them their paychecks. I see it everyday. MANY people, not all of course, have grown up on welfare programs and know no other way. There is to stigma, no backlash, and the money keeps rolling in.
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Old 11-14-2010, 04:41 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 8,738,542 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by sindey View Post
I have always heard that after the blacks, the browns, & the gays. it will be the poor who are demonized.
After reading this thread & many other on this topic. I guess I heard correctly.
The poverty rate across the board is lower now than it was 50 years ago. In 1960 the percentage people below the poverty level was 22.2%. In 2009 the percentage of people below the poverty level was 14.3%. Yes the poor are demonized and there are a lot of fallacies about poverty in this country particularly as it pertains to stereotypes about who is poor.
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