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Old 10-31-2010, 11:56 PM
 
269 posts, read 293,843 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
a facist ideology
That depends on your definition of fascism. The problem with using the term is that the right-wing in Europe (fascism) is completely different from the term used in the USA. In Europe, there is no small-government or libertarian party, all of the parties on the political spectrum support a large state of some kind. A Labour party activist in the UK will view the state as a tool for promoting welfare projects whereas a BNP member will view the state as a way to kick people of color out of the country. Neither ideology is "conservative" in the American sense.

Then, you also have varying degrees of social conservatism. Some are paleoconservatives, some may be libertarians who take a social conservative belief (just not forced onto the government) and you also have neoconservatives. All of them could fit under that one category, but their actions on the political scene would all be very different.

Is it fascist? For my definition, I would say no. Fascists get that term because of their views on race, but the Nazi party was certainly for things such as abortion and human experimentation, two things which social conservatives would be against.
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:34 AM
 
12,918 posts, read 16,755,467 times
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Fascism and socialism/progressivism are closely related.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,440 posts, read 28,456,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swirling_vortex View Post
That depends on your definition of fascism. The problem with using the term is that the right-wing in Europe (fascism) is completely different from the term used in the USA. In Europe, there is no small-government or libertarian party, all of the parties on the political spectrum support a large state of some kind. A Labour party activist in the UK will view the state as a tool for promoting welfare projects whereas a BNP member will view the state as a way to kick people of color out of the country. Neither ideology is "conservative" in the American sense.
The BNP actually supports a larger and more powerful state than Labour does, as they are more in favor of the welfare state - as long as it only benefits whites! There really hasn't been a parallel to this ideology in the US since George Wallace.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Columbus
4,877 posts, read 4,488,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
Fascism checklist
1.) Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Yes We Can, Hope and Change. Democratic National Converntion

2.) Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Democrats support the Patriot Act

3.) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Kosovo, Bosnia, keeping sanctions on Iraq by lying about WMDs for 8 years under Clinton

4.) Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Obama has spent more on the military in his budgets than any president in history. Expanding the war in Afghanistan.

5.) Rampant Sexism: The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy

Bill Clinton, pretty much a sexist, opposes gay marriage

6.) Controlled Mass Media: Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

GE is one of Obama's largest donors and owns NBC News. George Stephanopolis of ABC News strategizies with Democratic operative James Carville everyday.

7.) Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses

Villifying of anyone that doesn't agree with the Administration. i.e. saying the Tea Party folk are violent, dangerous and a threat to the Republic

8.) Religion and Government are Intertwined: Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

Jimmy Carter; Bill Clinton carrying his Bible after the Intern scandal. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton de facto leaders of the Democratic Party

9.) Corporate Power is Protected: The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

General Motors, Chrysler, GE, NBC News

10.) Labor Power is Suppressed: Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

No one has done that. Unions have lost members but not because of government action.

11.) Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored
Conservative professors are repeatedly shut out of jobs and conservative students are often told not to speak up in class with their views if they want to pass the class.
I always thought the left in this country has a streak of communism, fascism and Naziam in them. Guess I'm correct.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,624 posts, read 19,030,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
I see social conservatism as an reactionary backwards ideology that is very hostile to individual liberty an ideology that tries to legislate morality or what it consider is morality on others even those that dont agree with it
as such social consevatism is inherently a facist and moralisticly authoritarian movement.
You don't understand fascism much less social conservatism.
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,422,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest View Post
I always thought the left in this country has a streak of communism, fascism and Naziam in them. Guess I'm correct.
Most of your examples are a stretch, to say the least--particularly Dems supporting the Patriot Act (43% compared to 80% of Republicans, as of 2005)--but to your point #8 you can now add Jack Conway, a jerk who is unworthy of progressive support. As well as other Bible-toting losers like Harold Ford, Jr.
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Old 11-02-2010, 03:52 AM
 
Location: Columbus
4,877 posts, read 4,488,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
Most of your examples are a stretch, to say the least--particularly Dems supporting the Patriot Act (43% compared to 80% of Republicans, as of 2005)--but to your point #8 you can now add Jack Conway, a jerk who is unworthy of progressive support. As well as other Bible-toting losers like Harold Ford, Jr.
Most of my examples are spot on.

Democrats have done nothing about overturning the Patriot Act and they have had control of Congress for 4 years. That means they support it.
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Old 11-02-2010, 04:13 AM
 
783 posts, read 811,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
I don't know if all social conservatism is fascist, but it is based on punishing people for deviating from the social norms of the majority..

I just think fascism is more specific than that. Maybe it's better to say fascism is a socially conservative ideology.
I agree.
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Old 11-02-2010, 04:30 AM
 
783 posts, read 811,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
Conservatives in the old-fashioned sense of the word believe in incremental change, do not want to disrupt the social fabric and distrust radical solutions to social problems (defined thus, as against the utopian liberals and socialists of the era).

Reactionaries are radical people who demand to return to a previous stage of social or political development, regardless of what or who it disrupts.

I believe the term "reactionary" applies, unfortunately, to most people who style themselves conservatives in America at this time. It does not apply to conservatives in, say, the U.K. or France or almost any other civilized place.
Well said american style social conservatism is definitly reacionary backwards and regressive.
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Fredericktown,Ohio
7,168 posts, read 5,339,602 times
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It was easy as stealing candy from a one arm baby to predict what this thread would turn into. The left would say that fascism is from the right and they would respond with it is from the left, ad nausem.
Myself, I think fascism is a mixed bag and one of the main tenets " co operation of corporations and the state " is practiced widely in the U S and supported by both parties. Fascism is alive and well when you consider both parties have supported subsidies, special tax breaks for certain industry {think green} bail outs, and of course buying political influence to get the edge on competition. Is this not co operation between corp. and the state?
If any of you would have went to Wiki they covered fascism extensively and some of the experts on fascism do think it is hard to pin it between the left and right:
Quote:
Fascism is normally described as "extreme right",[42] although some writers have found placing fascism on a conventional left-right political spectrum difficult.[43] There is a scholarly consensus that fascism was influenced by both the left and the right.[10] A number of historians have regarded fascism either as a revolutionary centrist doctrine, as a doctrine which mixes philosophies of the left and the right, or as both of those things.[11][12][13]
There were a variety of factions within Italian Fascism on both the left and the right.
To our leftist Friends I think we could easily come to a agreement that FDR was not a social conservative and we would place him on the left. That was easy and lets look at some truth :
Quote:
FDR's personal letters reveal that he was impressed by what Mussolini was doing and said that he kept in close touch with that "admirable gentleman."[8] Mussolini himself praised the New Deal as following his own corporate state, as quoted in a July 1933 article in the New York Times, "Your plan for coordination of industry follows precisely our lines of cooperation."[9]
And :
Quote:
American historian Srđa Trifković, (originally from Serbia), in a 2000 article, wrote: "Roosevelt and his 'Brain Trust,' the architects of the New Deal, were fascinated by Italy‚Äôs fascism - a term which was not pejorative at the time. In America, it was seen as a form of economic nationalism built around consensus planning by the established elites in government, business, and labor."[27]
You see the problem here? how could it be considered all conservative if FDR who is from the left admired Mussolini and implemented state/industry co operation that both parties embrace to this day.
Fascism is too complex and has taken on different forms and I would suggest if anyone is interested to go to Wiki, I think they did a good job on covering it. Warning, there is at least 2 hours of reading but worth it since I learned a lot of info that I did not have no idea about before. I know most won't, so carry on with your partisan rants and calling each other fascist, ad extreme nausem
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