Can the United States Empire Fall? (generation, death, independent, problems)
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If we shut those bases down and bring those troops home there goes a nice chunk of the federal budget. As much as the Republicans talk about cutting federal spending you never hear them make serious proposal about cutting defense spending.
If America stops being the "World's Policeman" we could save a ton of money. The United States spends more on military spending than any country on the planet. At some point that has to stop if we are going to get our fiscal house in order.
Unfortunately since we ARE an empire, we can never stop our Leaders from waging war constantly--even when we are bankrupt and by no means can we afford it. Democrat or Republican, no matter how anti-war they sound on the campaign trail, it is amazing how each newly-elected President suddenly "realizes" that we "must" continue all wars started by the previous President, and add one or two more. The fact that the Military-Industrial Complex laid down the law to the newly elected President seems evident.
Here are some of the statistics, though I'll bet they are very much on the low side. Our government is far from transparent, particularly when discussing this issue:
One 2002 source notes "the presence of US military personnel in 156 countries....The US Military has bases in 63 countries. Brand new military bases have been built since September 11, 2001 in seven countries. In total, there are 255,065 US military personnel deployed Worldwide....According to Gelman, who examined 2005 official Pentagon data, the US is thought to own a total of 737 bases in foreign lands."
World leadership now is economic, not military. China will no problem defeating our military with the simple strategy of owning a large portion of our national debt, now about $14 trillion and rising. Is this the reason every store in America is filled with cheap goods from China, including pet food that was poisonous? Is this why China protects its businesses from foreign trade, but America's leaders refuse to?
We can't afford a gigantic, incredibly expensive military that is larger than those of all the other nation's militaries combined, although America has only 5% of the world population. We certainly can't afford it when our economy is comatose, wages have stagnated since the early 1970s, and the retirement of the Baby Boom will have to be paid for somehow. Even at 10% of the current mass, we would have more than enough military to protect our borders--if our Presidents ever stop playing King of the World and bring them home and allow them to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
If the United States declines that will mean we've moved away from consumerism. It won't be static. If we start saving and stop buying as much as we have in the past those countries like China and other up and coming countries will be right along the side of us. I think it could stall those countries and their prosperity even more so than it would ours.
Demand drops, supply increases and prices (and revenues for those countries) ______.
I would tend to agree that the focus towards militarism will decline, and a new more vigorous focus will be directed towards economics and diplomacy, at least for quite some time
All empires rise and fall throughout history, it seems to be part of the natural cycle of world civilizations. One group or nation will "top-dog" at certain periods of time, then they switch places with other regions or nations taking the reins. For example: Southern Europe vs Northern Europe, East Asia vs Southeast Asia, Asia (China and India) vs Western world currently, etc.
Seems to be a bit of, we are the mightiest power and no other country can hurt us at all.
Some may want to rethink that, a nuke war would have ALL the major cities in the USA destroyed along with millions of dead.
You would win ? the dying from radiation would have problems doing any celebrating.
Patton, I saw that commercial! You're right though ... It was aired on Fox News and not free network stations. Only one word to describe it. Sobering. Too bad the American public doesn't get it. We're already into China for so much money that they would own us tomorrow if they called in the loan.
Didn't Caesar Chavez just file to take over Owens Illinois?
Patton, I saw that commercial! You're right though ... It was aired on Fox News and not free network stations. Only one word to describe it. Sobering. Too bad the American public doesn't get it. We're already into China for so much money that they would own us tomorrow if they called in the loan.
Didn't Caesar Chavez just file to take over Owens Illinois?
Don't get me wrong, a trillion is a lot of debt but it's approximately 1/14 of our economy. If we wanted to and went into real austerity mode we could do it. We could pay back China, Japan, United Kingdom, Oil Exporters, Brazil, Carribean Banking Centers, Hong Kong, Taiwan... wait Oil Exporters... what?
Funny-- I recall during the Spanish American war we took the Phillipines, we've got Guam, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, we have bases in other countries, and even if that is at the request of the country they are stationed in, they are still our troops.
We have a vast expanse of land-- if you want to count that as an Empire, we do have a huge world economy we rely on, allies, etc and you might count that as an empire... not an "empire" as the dictionary might say, because the world changes and we don't have empires like that anymore
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Originally Posted by BentBow
the domain ruled by an emperor or empress; the region over which imperial dominion is exercised
a group of countries under a single authority; "the British created a great empire"
a monarchy with an emperor as head of state
conglomerate: a group of diverse companies under common ownership and run as a single organization
Don't even think about trying to relabel the REPUBLIC that has been envied by all other nations.
That was back in the days of colonies and Emperors and Kings-- we have Democracy now, and the UN, so acquiring an Empire would seem "taboo"?
No country would allow it, Hitler tried to acquire an Empire... and look how that went...
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Originally Posted by TnHilltopper
Can the United States Empire Fall?
Can the empire fall, yes in fact it is already past its zenith and is in decline. In order to maintain the largess of empire, it requires a robust and thriving economy, the ability to dominate militarily and control territories it occupies.
As of right now, in case you missed it, our economy is in tatters, debt, trade imbalance, deficit spending, and gross consumption in the private sectors. We are a nation that is dependent wholly upon cheap energy, cheap goods and the cooperation of other nations, we no longer can sustain ourselves on our own. Cut off oil and America would be in the Dark Ages in less than 6 months and this country would resemble the Lord of the Flies.
Let us never forget that "those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana
You'd have to cut off American oil producers also, because when you drive through Texas- you see all those pumps, NOT...pumping? Thats because they're paid not to-- so the government can control the price of oil that we buy from other countries...
Honestly, its as if we should get rid of money overall, because its so worthless, but we're giving WATER rights to corporations?? We NEED water to survive, why would we give it to people who force us to pay for it? why not set up "credit" that they can "pay" their workers with, instead of actual money, it can be exchanged for money--so inflation doesnt go up??
Rome, while falling, had many bursts of flare-- that kept the country alive...
and before Rome itself fell, they established the Eastern Roman Empire, but alas, it ended too. I think the USA will eventually fall, but probably at least 30 years from now, at least,
We've lasted 200 years with a written Constitution, longest one thats lasted yet, so i think we've done considerably well, becoming the dominant world power, and finally someone else will take over as our manufacturing base is pretty much gone...
I think we have a real chance to unite many countries of the world (no, not by world domination) but working more openly with them, and breaking down the barriers we have built up, to establish "world peace" and do good things, but our corrupt politicians, and special interests groups, mega corporations, etc wouldn't want anything good like that to happen
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