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Old 11-03-2010, 06:34 PM
 
27,214 posts, read 46,741,218 times
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I have written many times about my mother in law who for the last 25 years never was diagnosed although many times in the hospital but never received a MRI or Scan...(too expensive for someone older than 65 and only done in certain circumstances)...

Over here when she came and was brought into the ER she was diagnosed within 24 hours and we were shocked to learn what was wrong....almost everything from top to toe. Mostly shocked because we didn't know earlier with the so called great Dutch health care.

After she died a couple of weeks later the Dutch hospital was shocked since they wanted to release her to her home and not wait for a nursing home.....and asked for an authopsy which we gladly allowed and we got the same info as over here....

In between being over here hospilized and being transported back to a Ducth hospital the Dutch hospital declined to see the US medical report and told us they wanted to examine her and determine what was wrong...according to them she was good to go home, until she died "all of a sudden". We knew she would die soon since they were giving her fat food which was restricted over here due to pancreatis.

I will spare you all the details but this all convinced us that US health care can't be compared to Dutch health care and you are better of over here even with the bad things that are over here and need to be fixed!
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Old 11-03-2010, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,747,599 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
Over here there are other issues like teenage pregnancies and many older woman getting babies. You have to compare apples with apples.

Over here the health care needs to be fixed not like Obama care!

Provide birth control so teenagers are not sitting in High School being 8-9 months pregnant like my son has in his class and he is a Sophomore!

For all the posters who think Europes care is so great...go there in case you need help which will clean up the waiting times in the ER! Feel free to go...I bet nobody will go! People come here for care, not the other way around...why would that be!
Ever waited in an ER in the US?

Regarding the teen moms:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
You can do that with statistics? Just remove the data sets you don't like? This changes everything!
Actually, the largest number of births to teens are in the 17-19 year olds, and they are actually physically at a good age for having babies.

As for older women, isn't that the case in Europe as well?
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:35 PM
 
46,948 posts, read 25,984,404 times
Reputation: 29441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Pop quiz: Which is higher - the number of Americans going abroad for medical treatment, or the number of people traveling to the US for treatment?
Looks like some have gotten this the wrong way around, so allow me: There are many, many more Americans who leave the US to get treatment than there are foreigners travelling to the US for medical purposes.
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Old 11-04-2010, 04:27 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,975 posts, read 47,621,806 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
I have written many times about my mother in law who for the last 25 years never was diagnosed although many times in the hospital but never received a MRI or Scan...(too expensive for someone older than 65 and only done in certain circumstances)...

Over here when she came and was brought into the ER she was diagnosed within 24 hours and we were shocked to learn what was wrong....almost everything from top to toe. Mostly shocked because we didn't know earlier with the so called great Dutch health care.

After she died a couple of weeks later the Dutch hospital was shocked since they wanted to release her to her home and not wait for a nursing home.....and asked for an authopsy which we gladly allowed and we got the same info as over here....

In between being over here hospilized and being transported back to a Ducth hospital the Dutch hospital declined to see the US medical report and told us they wanted to examine her and determine what was wrong...according to them she was good to go home, until she died "all of a sudden". We knew she would die soon since they were giving her fat food which was restricted over here due to pancreatis.

I will spare you all the details but this all convinced us that US health care can't be compared to Dutch health care and you are better of over here even with the bad things that are over here and need to be fixed!
It is not unusual for a woman to die after reaching 90. There is no cure for old age. Not in Holland, not in US, or anywhere else.
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Old 11-04-2010, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
3,336 posts, read 6,941,753 times
Reputation: 2084
Anecdotes aside, our average lifespan is 34th in the world. Our infant mortality rate is 33rd. I'm noticing a pattern. I think it is fair to say that we have about the 30th greatest health care system in the world.
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Old 11-04-2010, 08:08 AM
 
1,733 posts, read 1,822,243 times
Reputation: 1135
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
For all the posters who think Europes care is so great...go there in case you need help which will clean up the waiting times in the ER! Feel free to go...I bet nobody will go! People come here for care, not the other way around...why would that be!
Surely you don't seriously believe that.

85 000 people come to the US for treatment every year. The estimates on the number leaving the US for treatment runs from a lowball one million to one and a half million at the most.
The US health care industry is not exactly competitive.

'I can't afford surgery in the U.S.,' says bargain shopper - CNN.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
I have written many times about my mother in law who for the last 25 years never was diagnosed although many times in the hospital but never received a MRI or Scan...(too expensive for someone older than 65 and only done in certain circumstances)...

Over here when she came and was brought into the ER she was diagnosed within 24 hours and we were shocked to learn what was wrong....almost everything from top to toe. Mostly shocked because we didn't know earlier with the so called great Dutch health care.

After she died a couple of weeks later the Dutch hospital was shocked since they wanted to release her to her home and not wait for a nursing home.....and asked for an authopsy which we gladly allowed and we got the same info as over here....

In between being over here hospilized and being transported back to a Ducth hospital the Dutch hospital declined to see the US medical report and told us they wanted to examine her and determine what was wrong...according to them she was good to go home, until she died "all of a sudden". We knew she would die soon since they were giving her fat food which was restricted over here due to pancreatis.

I will spare you all the details but this all convinced us that US health care can't be compared to Dutch health care and you are better of over here even with the bad things that are over here and need to be fixed!
Thats a nice anecdotal story. But MRI waiting times are not exactly secret these days. Countries really do compare these things heavily. I looked up the EuroHealth Consumer Index. Waiting times for the Netherlands for a non-emergency MRI is listed as more than 7 days but never as much as 21 days.

As for the notion that in the Netherlands a MRI or Scan is too expensive for someone older than 65 and only done in certain circumstances...

You know what? That sounds like something Americans might believe because Americans are familiar with a system that denies treatment based on non-medical criteria.
It does, frankly, sound extremly peculiar for people familiar with other health care systems. The waiting list for MRIs in the Netherlands seem quite short. And the Netherlands seem to beat the US on accessibility:

U.S. scores dead last again in healthcare study | Reuters

Last edited by Grim Reader; 11-04-2010 at 08:44 AM..
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Old 11-04-2010, 09:37 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,045,587 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
85 000 people come to the US for treatment every year. The estimates on the number leaving the US for treatment runs from a lowball one million to one and a half million at the most.
The US health care industry is not exactly competitive.
A lot of these are what they call tourist medical trips? The cost of the procedure and the trip are below what it cost in the US. They advertise it as a vacation.

What I would be interested in knowing is what types of procedures people are going for and what types of procedures people are coming here for. I'd be willing to bet they aren't coming here for simple things while a large proportion of those leaving are getting more basic care.

The other thing I'd be interested in is what countries are they leaving for? If you're going to Thailand for surgery it shouldn't be surprising the costs are lower there than here in the states for a US citizen, affordability for someone from Thailand is another story.
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Old 11-04-2010, 10:07 AM
 
46,948 posts, read 25,984,404 times
Reputation: 29441
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
A lot of these are what they call tourist medical trips? The cost of the procedure and the trip are below what it cost in the US. They advertise it as a vacation.

What I would be interested in knowing is what types of procedures people are going for and what types of procedures people are coming here for. I'd be willing to bet they aren't coming here for simple things while a large proportion of those leaving are getting more basic care.

The other thing I'd be interested in is what countries are they leaving for? If you're going to Thailand for surgery it shouldn't be surprising the costs are lower there than here in the states for a US citizen, affordability for someone from Thailand is another story.
It does kinda blow the entire "People are coming here, hence our system is better!" meme out of the water, though, doesn't it? Once you're travelling for medical care, you'll go to the highest quality that your budget will allow you, obviously.

The very best of US medical care is absolutely top-notch, no doubt about it. And like all developed nations, you'll find teams who have specialized in rare and complex procedures to the point where they're better than anyone else. (There are teams like that in Germany, France, probably even Sweden as well. University hospitals push boundaries all the time.)

But it's one thing to have improved procedures that allow 0.1% of your patients an extra 10% survival rate - I'm all for it, it should happen as much as possible, it's obviously of paramount importance to those involved. It's quite another to have a system that fails to provide a reasonable infant mortality rate. That number can be improved by throwing money at the problem.

Quality in a healthcare system has to include both specialization and availability, at least in my opinion.
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Old 11-04-2010, 10:19 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,045,587 times
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That's the problem as I see it, quality is not an issue. My brother needed to get treated for a brain tumor and they gave him 2 years max. I believe it was same type of cancer Kennedy had, survival is rare. Six years later... I doubt he'd still be alive if he was treated in Thailand.

Our problem is affordability and access and that is what we needs to address.
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Old 11-04-2010, 05:10 PM
 
2,085 posts, read 2,468,889 times
Reputation: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Pop quiz: Which is higher - the number of Americans going abroad for medical treatment, or the number of people traveling to the US for treatment?
People coming here.
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