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Old 11-12-2010, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,755,547 times
Reputation: 3146

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828 View Post
Wow, I am sorry you feel that way. If health care shouldn't be a right, than neither should other services such as law enforcement or public education. Because after all, who am I to feel that I have a RIGHT to a law enforcement officer's or a teacher's labor??

There simply isn't a right to law enforcement either. Where do you get that? If a municipality decides to disband its police force you are out of luck. You can't petition the supreme court to reinstate it because it is a right. You don't have a right to teachers labor either. Try walking onto Harvard and tell them to teach you. People lets learn the constitution. Sheesh.

By the way the pre-existing issue is way overblown.

Review & Outlook: The 8,011-Person Crisis - WSJ.com

The 8,011-Person Crisis

ObamaCare's pre-existing condition program is a bust.

 
Old 11-12-2010, 09:18 AM
 
8,631 posts, read 9,139,445 times
Reputation: 5990
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
There simply isn't a right to law enforcement either. Where do you get that? If a municipality decides to disband its police force you are out of luck. You can't petition the supreme court to reinstate it because it is a right. People lets learn the constitution. Sheesh.

By the way the pre-existing issue is way overblown.

Review & Outlook: The 8,011-Person Crisis - WSJ.com

The 8,011-Person Crisis

ObamaCare's pre-existing condition program is a bust.
There is a good reason why many have not taken advantage of the pre-existing condition coverage. Many states do not offer the coverage so the fed has stepped in to cover it and guess what? The costs are too high for many. Many have gone so far into debt because of out of pocket costs, the costs of $10,000-$16,000 per year is now out of reach.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,755,547 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmking View Post
There is a good reason why many have not taken advantage of the pre-existing condition coverage. Many states do not offer the coverage so the fed has stepped in to cover it and guess what? The costs are too high for many. Many have gone so far into debt because of out of pocket costs, the costs of $10,000-$16,000 per year is now out of reach.

Welll thats not true.

Review & Outlook: The 8,011-Person Crisis - WSJ.com

"To judge by President Obama’s rhetoric, the insurance industry’s victims have been wandering the country like Okies in “The Grapes of Wrath.” Thus ObamaCare gave the Health and Human Services Department the power to design and sell its own insurance policies. The $5 billion program started in July and runs through 2014, when ObamaCare’s broader regulations kick in."
 
Old 11-12-2010, 09:32 AM
 
Location: it depends
6,369 posts, read 6,410,222 times
Reputation: 6388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
come on poor people die already!
Obamacare will ultimately transform the system by letting old people die instead of poor people.

Find out how many bypass surgeries get done under socialized health plans for people over the age of 70, and limitations on cancer treaatments based on age, etc.

If you let a Social Security retiree die, we save two ways!
 
Old 11-12-2010, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,779,853 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmking View Post
And they are moving in what direction? Our system, perhaps? I'll wager a $100 that will never happen. Why? With all of their system's faults it blows our system away and their people know it and will never stand for a greedy, money grubbing gorilla standing directly between doctor and patient.
Germany has the oldest UHC system in the world. They are not going to go "free market". They may be making changes, but they're not going to scrap it. Yes, I have a crystal ball.

Universal health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Germany has the world's oldest universal health care system, with origins dating back to Otto von Bismarck's Health Insurance Act of 1883.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,544,683 times
Reputation: 24780
Default Since the Republican Party hates the healthcare LAW, what do they propose, letting the poor die or go bankrupt?

I like easy questions.

The GOP, if you haven't been paying attention for the past few years, is bought and paid for by DC K Street lobbyists representing corporate interests. They will vote in accordance with their corporate masters' instructions.

The insurance industry hates the health care law. It might lower executive bonuses. Thus, the GOP hates it, because they've been told to.

The GOP will propose that the insurance execs continue to receive record bonuses and salaries.

Health issues for citizens? That's not their concern. Citizens don't lobby with briefcases full of money now, do they?

The K Street Project was an effort by the Tom Delay to pressure Washington lobbying firms to hire Republicans in top positions, and to reward loyal GOP lobbyists with access to influential officials. It was launched in 1995 by Republican strategist Grover Norquist and then-House majority whip Tom DeLay. It has been criticized as being part of a "coziness" between the GOP and large corporations which has allegedly allowed business to rewrite government regulations affecting their own industries in some cases (see Dick Cheney energy task force).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Street_Project

Last edited by Old Gringo; 11-12-2010 at 09:43 AM..
 
Old 11-12-2010, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,755,547 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmking View Post
And they are moving in what direction? Our system, perhaps? I'll wager a $100 that will never happen. Why? With all of their system's faults it blows our system away and their people know it and will never stand for a greedy, money grubbing gorilla standing directly between doctor and patient.

They are moving away from providing services and are increasing taxes to pay for the little they do provide. Even the vaunted German system only covers 90% of the people for a 16% tax!

Germany cuts health care spending, raises premiums

"The decision comes after months of wrangling within Merkel's coalition over a fundamental overhaul of the system and after a series of political blows to the chancellor and plummeting support in the polls.
While government officials said Tuesday's decision was an achievement reached harmoniously, the opposition immediately criticized the reform saying it basically consists of everybody paying more.
Germany's once highly regarded mandatory health insurance covers about 72 million people, or 90 percent of the population. It has already gone through a series of reforms to stabilize its [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]financial[/color][/color] base. Costs are rising swiftly because of ever more sophisticated treatments and an aging population."
 
Old 11-12-2010, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
I like easy questions.

The GOP, if you haven't been paying attention for the past few years, is bought and paid for by DC K Street lobbyists representing corporate interests. They will vote in accordance with their corporate masters' instructions.

The insurance industry hates the health care law. It might lower executive bonuses. Thus, the GOP hates it, because they've been told to.

The GOP will propose that the insurance execs continue to receive record bonuses and salaries.

Health issues for citizens? That's not their concern. Citizens don't lobby with briefcases full of money now, do they?
They don't have to do that. Obamacare practically insures that with mandatory insurance and no reform on costs. The DEMS did that.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,755,547 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Germany has the oldest UHC system in the world. They are not going to go "free market". They may be making changes, but they're not going to scrap it. Yes, I have a crystal ball.

Universal health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Germany has the world's oldest universal health care system, with origins dating back to Otto von Bismarck's Health Insurance Act of 1883.

Past performance is no predictor of future results.

"The decision comes after months of wrangling within Merkel's coalition over a fundamental overhaul of the system and after a series of political blows to the chancellor and plummeting support in the polls.
While government officials said Tuesday's decision was an achievement reached harmoniously, the opposition immediately criticized the reform saying it basically consists of everybody paying more.
Germany's once highly regarded mandatory health insurance covers about 72 million people, or 90 percent of the population. It has already gone through a series of reforms to stabilize its [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]financial[/color][/color] base. Costs are rising swiftly because of ever more sophisticated treatments and an aging population."

Germany cuts health care spending, raises premiums

The Germans know their system is unsustainable.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 09:40 AM
 
20,462 posts, read 12,384,859 times
Reputation: 10259
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
Obamacare will ultimately transform the system by letting old people die instead of poor people.

Find out how many bypass surgeries get done under socialized health plans for people over the age of 70, and limitations on cancer treaatments based on age, etc.

If you let a Social Security retiree die, we save two ways!

We do know that Mr Obama did suggest vicodine instead of a pacemaker for a 100 year old grandmother....
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