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Old 11-18-2010, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Tricity, PL
61,711 posts, read 87,101,195 times
Reputation: 131685

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Senate Republicans voted unanimously Wednesday against a bill that would work to ensure fair pay for women, the Paycheck Fairness Act. The vote was 58-41.
Not a single Republican supported the bill, including Sens. Olympia Snowe (R-ME) and Susan Collins (R-ME), who had previously voted in favor of the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, which removed barriers blocking workers from seeking compensation from discriminatory pay practices.
As we emerge from one of the worst recessions in history, this bill would ensure that American women and their families aren't bringing home smaller paychecks because of discrimination.

For full-time, year-round workers, women are paid on average only 78 percent of what men are paid; for women of color, the gap is significantly wider. These wage gaps stubbornly remain despite the passage of the Equal Pay Act in 1963, and a variety of legislation prohibiting employment discrimination.

Women still are not receiving equal pay for equal work, let alone equal pay for work of equal value. This disparity not only affects women's spending power, it penalizes their retirement security by creating gaps in Social Security and pensions.
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Old 11-19-2010, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Sol System
1,497 posts, read 3,352,578 times
Reputation: 1043
They should not have done this. Hell , many ladies work harder than I , and are likely being shifted. Keep in mind however , our species still is in its infancy. There exist those who still believe in keeping ladies cooped up to live half lives at home all day , with strings of babies. Those are the ones who should be executed.
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Old 11-19-2010, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Corydon, IN
3,688 posts, read 5,013,192 times
Reputation: 7588
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina View Post
As we emerge from one of the worst recessions in history, this bill would ensure that American women and their families aren't bringing home smaller paychecks because of discrimination.

For full-time, year-round workers, women are paid on average only 78 percent of what men are paid; for women of color, the gap is significantly wider. These wage gaps stubbornly remain despite the passage of the Equal Pay Act in 1963, and a variety of legislation prohibiting employment discrimination.

Women still are not receiving equal pay for equal work, let alone equal pay for work of equal value. This disparity not only affects women's spending power, it penalizes their retirement security by creating gaps in Social Security and pensions.

[bolded type yours and left for emphasis]


I note that these figures are still quite popularly bandied about -- nor do I say that they are actually wrong; they're actually kind of close.

However, the 78/100 wage gap and the "women of color" gap figures ARE most definitely misleading and yet still popular for their sensationalistic potential.

Based on the Equal Pat Act of 1963, it is 100 percent illegal -- let's say that one more time: ILLEGAL -- for companies to pay separate HOURLY wages based on gender or color, and illegal for companies to pay separate SET SALARY wages based on those same factors.

That means right up to the point where wages become negotiable women are on a precisely equal footing with men. Zero argument. When it's discovered that separate pays are being handed out for the same job in settings where the scales are hourly or set-salary (which is a schmancy way of raising pay while it can still be broken down hourly), companies are in violation and subject to prosecution and back-wages.

Nobody wants to face that or deal with the hassle; ergo, nobody is really DOING it out there. They're just not.


But we're not after answers or facts; we're after sensationalism, because that's what people respond to. So we gloss over various studies done numerous times demonstrating that there are myriad factors involved in that pay disparity between men and women.

For example:

--- Men show a significantly higher tendency to negotiate for higher pay when entering a new job.

For the woman who has been on that job for quite a while it can be frustrating when the new GUY turns out to be earning the same wages she feels she earned through putting her time in, when the fact is that she had the same opportunity to negotiate that he did.

It also lends itself nicely to that famed 78 cents on the dollar because that figure is broken down over TIME combined with EARNINGS. He WILL earn more in his first six months than she did. THAT is what we'll hold up while we scream about unfairness, and the reason behind it will be nicely swept under the rug.

--- Men are often subject to more physically demanding aspects of what would otherwise be the SAME job, ie., certain positions on a standard conveyor line. Women sometimes hold these positions but are replaced by a man in the event that she proves incapable of handling the increased physical intensity involved.

For a woman on a conveyor line who is picking items in a warehouse this can seem frustrating when it involves a positionary differential, which is relatively common in otherwise hourly-wage settings.

Picking in a warehouse, for example, requires speed and dexterity; it tends to pay the standard hourly wage. Beyond a doubt it's difficult work, physically demanding -- but on a level everyone is expected to maintain.

Loading, on the other hand, requires brute force and while it begins at the standard hourly wage, it typically earns a positionary differential such as an additional quarter or fifty cents on the hour.

Women who are physically capable of holding those positions EARN THE SAME MONEY AS THE MEN ON THOSE POSITIONS. Women who cannot handle those positions are not kept on those positions. Those positions are typically held by -- guess who? Men.

We still hold up the 78 cents placard, brandishing it like a weapon -- but nobody bothers to ask why it's true because that's not politically correct.


--- Women demonstrate greater absences from work settings due to health reasons, often involving pregnancy.

This leads to time off with reduced pay in the event of fluctuating salaries based on production, such as in a corporate setting. A lawyer, for example, will find that her billing falls off during maternity leave, while a man has no such difficulty imposed on him.

I, for one, HATE this aspect of our maternity leave system and wish we had something closer to the standard European maternity leave system. I believe it's absolutely WRONG that in this case women are penalized for something impossible to achieve by a man, and because I believe reproduction is a right (although there are times when I question this) I believe our system is in dire need of repair with regard to this.

On the other hand we're not talking about morals here, we're talking about business -- and companies and corporations are in business. When they hire between men and women they are not only taking capabilities into account, they must take liabilities into account.

All else being exactly equal between a man and a woman who are up for a job, the company MUST take into consideration that the man will NEVER get pregnant and require leave for an extended period.

A popular counter for this argument is that men get sick too, with diseases and injuries and cancers, etc. This counter is legitimate and true -- but when men experience these things AND take the time off, their pay falls as quickly as a woman's would. Further, comparing maladies to something which ultimately IS a CHOICE (a right, absolutely, but also a choice) gets into apples-and-oranges territory. It's possibility vs likelihood.

That part is never mentioned when we scream about 78 cents on the dollar.
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Old 11-19-2010, 11:18 AM
 
3,650 posts, read 9,212,163 times
Reputation: 2787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch View Post
But we're not after answers or facts; we're after sensationalism, because that's what people respond to. So we gloss over various studies done numerous times demonstrating that there are myriad factors involved in that pay disparity between men and women.
Bingo. Welcome to the 21st century. :vomit:

And thx for saving me the keystrokes. People don't really want "equality." They want anything that will favor them.
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Old 11-19-2010, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Austin, Texas
2,754 posts, read 6,101,409 times
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This issue has been bandied about for donkey's years. The simple truth is that the main reason some women are paid less than their male counterparts is because they accept lesser pay for the trade-off of having the freedom to take more time off for family and personal days. And a higher percentage of women than men are content to accept more freedom and less stress in lieu of high pay. Men are usually more willing to work their butts off on the fast-track to promotions and higher pay than women, who, since they don't identify themselves with their jobs like men do, are content to stay mired in the same rung on the corporate or company ladder.
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Old 11-19-2010, 03:33 PM
 
3,486 posts, read 5,684,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummerBoy View Post
This issue has been bandied about for donkey's years. The simple truth is that the main reason some women are paid less than their male counterparts is because they accept lesser pay for the trade-off of having the freedom to take more time off for family and personal days.
What are you saying here exactly? That men don't take time off for family (if a kid gets sick, for example)? Or that they prefer to work rather than to attend to a family emergency? Or that they aren't expected to take care of family business? Or they are perceived not to be taking time off to take care of their families despite doing so? Why do you think it's women who accept the trade-off of lesser pay for more flexibility to stay home with a sick kid?

Quote:
And a higher percentage of women than men are content to accept more freedom and less stress in lieu of high pay. Men are usually more willing to work their butts off on the fast-track to promotions and higher pay than women, who, since they don't identify themselves with their jobs like men do, are content to stay mired in the same rung on the corporate or company ladder.
But that goes back to your prior statement. Is it that men identify themselves more with their jobs than women do -- or is it something that's tied to social expectations? If a man works his butt off on the fast track to promotions and higher pay, but has less freedom (to attend to his family's needs) -- would you describe him as a hard worker and a dedicated provider, or a selfish careerist and a bad father? If a woman works her butt off on the fast track to promotions and higher pay, but has less freedom (to take care of her family's needs) -- would you describe her as a hard worker and a dedicated provider, or a selfish career woman and a bad mother?
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Old 11-19-2010, 05:59 PM
 
545 posts, read 1,555,813 times
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Consider the following:
  • Men often work more overtime shifts
  • Men do not take maternity leaves
  • More women are entering universities then men
  • Women have higher GPAs in high school than men
  1. Are we paying the same for the same job or hours? I think it's fair to pay men more if men work more hours. I'm not sure how the bill addresses that problem.
  2. Women are starting to become more educated, should we place quotas on women so that more men can enter universities?
I'm not a misogynist, but I feel that in situations where men suffer, we do not receive the same amount of attention as women. I understand that women have suffered more historically, but that's the past. We live in the present.
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Old 11-20-2010, 06:35 AM
 
19,046 posts, read 25,190,600 times
Reputation: 13485
Redisca is spot on. As far as unequal pay for the same job goes, when it comes to family, there will always be disparity until men, in general, take equal responsibility for their families. OTOH, an aspect of this 78/100 is that women, generally, may gravitate to lower paying careers. I think this is changing, tho.

I also agree with US in noting that women may have a more difficult time in negotiations and I think this issue is stratified. Sure, the obvious assumption here is that women may be less assertive and confident than men over all, which I can personally attest to, but weighing of risk comes into play when stability is at stake. This might tie into responsibilities at home. For example, I would be less inclined to take a higher paying position at a less stable company, thereby hindering moving up the financial ladder, because I'm worried about supporting my family, the future, etc.
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Old 11-20-2010, 07:30 AM
 
3,042 posts, read 5,001,639 times
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I don't get what this bill has that is not covered by the EEOC.

Equal Compensation
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:10 AM
 
69 posts, read 78,139 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
Redisca is spot on. As far as unequal pay for the same job goes, when it comes to family, there will always be disparity until men, in general, take equal responsibility for their families. OTOH, an aspect of this 78/100 is that women, generally, may gravitate to lower paying careers. I think this is changing, tho.

What does that have to do with men taking responsibility for their families? What do you even mean by that? I guess we are moving towards paying people to raise their own children. Yikes!

I also agree with US in noting that women may have a more difficult time in negotiations and I think this issue is stratified. Sure, the obvious assumption here is that women may be less assertive and confident than men over all, which I can personally attest to, but weighing of risk comes into play when stability is at stake. This might tie into responsibilities at home. For example, I would be less inclined to take a higher paying position at a less stable company, thereby hindering moving up the financial ladder, because I'm worried about supporting my family, the future, etc.

It is already illegal to discriminate based on gender in the USA. It has been so for almost 50 years. No need for this law.
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