Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And what kind of return are we getting on our $119.4 billion investment in Afghanistan this year? Our enemy, the Taliban, remains powerful and entrenched. Under Gen. David Petraeus, our forces are trying to pursue a counterinsurgency strategy. But one prerequisite - a trustworthy local government that deserves and wins popular support - does not exist. The administration of President Hamid Karzai is seen as riddled with corruption, and Karzai himself can be as inconstant as a zephyr.
For those who "believe" the surge worked in Iraq, well guess what, Iraq is falling back into chaos. Anytime you dump a bunch more personnel into a given location the level of enemy action is going to decline... duh... Long term it means zip, nadda, el zippo do dee da.
Afghanistan is a completely different animal than Iraq with a completely different dynamic that is spread out over at least 3 other countries and the primary one having absolutely no local governmental stability in which our current strategy is dependent upon.
Folks, get back with me in 5-10 years and let me know how well its going, get back with me in 20 or 50 or 100 and let me know if we finally "beat them over there so we don't have to fight them over here".
Because the USA takes in a lot of drug money from those poppies. As well as the Afghan government. It's a huge cash crop.
The USA wants the streets of America to be flooded with drugs.
Sorry. This is just my "whacky conspiracy theory".
Most heroin that enters the US now comes from Southeast Asia, Mexico, and Colombia. Afghanistan and the rest of the "golden crescent" supplies Europe and to a greater extent Russia, where heroin abuse is especially high.
Ironically the Taliban government was successful in eradicating poppy cultivation within provinces they controlled in the 90s. The issue now is heroin prices have increased considerably and it has become difficult to convince farmers to grow alternative crops due to healthy profit margins from opiates. Hashish is also common now - including whole forests of 10 foot tall marijuana plants!
US forces will not touch the stuff because it would be seen as robbing the locals of their livelihood.
You should have seen this Frontline documentary on boy slaves in Afghanistan that dance for the local Warlords who own them and rape them daily. One warlord says all the powerful warlords have these boys. Oh and they funny part was that these warlords where being funded by the US to fight the Taliban who outlawed this practice known as "Bacha bazi". 8 years old!
This is the type of society that the flag waivers here in the USA cheered when invaded them. Seriously declare how democracy is taking hold, and would scream "terrorist sympathizers" if we decided to pull out.
Your sons and daughters are dying for a society where matricide, maiming, and pedophiia are engrained in the culture. Not to mention the Billions and Billions of blown taxpayer money.
I don't object to our troops having everything they need, but I can't help but wonder what good they'll do. The M-1 Abrams weighs over 120,000 lbs and can't get very far off the roads in the heavily mountained parts of Afghanistan where the majority of the fighting is still going on.
Maybe they intend to deploy them to those little, rinky-dink platoon-sized operating bases as additional fire support. That's fine, but they'll sure make a tempting target. Everybody wants to take out a tank!
As for the larger issue of Obama's handling of the war? He's doing the best he can considering that the Bush administration handed off a losing effort to him. He's got to make up a lot of ground before he can start to think about getting out. And, we WILL get out someday. We simply can't stay forever.
What Afghanistan will look like when we leave is unknown at this point, but I'm not optimistic. The horrendous mismanagement of the war during the days of Donald Rumsfeld laid the ground work for failure, and I don't know if that can be overcome in time at this late date.
One thing is certain, though. Our troops are doing a wonderful job in an impossible situation and the last thing we need to do is forget they're still there.
You're preaching to the choir. I'm an ex-tanker. There's this thing about mountain passes that give me the willies. It could be that every empire in history has suffered heavy losses and usually defeat in such terrain against minuscule opposition.
But, the M1A1 is a formidable chunk of machinery; A work of art in my opinion. I really don't think this war is winnable but I do hope better armor (and impressive firepower) will reduce the danger to our people till the loonies in DC finally figure it out.
Last edited by Joe_Ryder; 11-19-2010 at 07:12 PM..
Reason: I like semicolons.
I don't object to our troops having everything they need, but I can't help but wonder what good they'll do. The M-1 Abrams weighs over 120,000 lbs and can't get very far off the roads in the heavily mountained parts of Afghanistan where the majority of the fighting is still going on.
Maybe they intend to deploy them to those little, rinky-dink platoon-sized operating bases as additional fire support. That's fine, but they'll sure make a tempting target. Everybody wants to take out a tank!
As for the larger issue of Obama's handling of the war? He's doing the best he can considering that the Bush administration handed off a losing effort to him. He's got to make up a lot of ground before he can start to think about getting out. And, we WILL get out someday. We simply can't stay forever.
What Afghanistan will look like when we leave is unknown at this point, but I'm not optimistic. The horrendous mismanagement of the war during the days of Donald Rumsfeld laid the ground work for failure, and I don't know if that can be overcome in time at this late date.
One thing is certain, though. Our troops are doing a wonderful job in an impossible situation and the last thing we need to do is forget they're still there.
No post would be complete without a standard "thanks you troops"...How brave they are,....how much they sacrifice......how noble they are fighting people native to the locals who want them out. How moral we are to fight this war. It would have to be moral right? Because our troops don't fight immoral wars now do they?
I've noticed over the years the folks most likely to heap praise on the troops are the same people who most likely will send them over to die for whatever excuse the Neocons come up with
No post would be complete without a standard "thanks you troops"...How brave they are,....how much they sacrifice......how noble they are fighting people native to the locals who want them out. How moral we are to fight this war. It would have to be moral right? Because our troops don't fight immoral wars now do they?
I've noticed over the years the folks most likely to heap praise on the troops are the same people who most likely will send them over to die for whatever excuse the Neocons come up with
All I said was don't forget they're still over there. How hard is that? You don't have to agree with what they're doing.
I've noticed over the years that the folks most likely to disparage the troops are the same people who most likely would never dare to put their sorry azzes in the line of fire for any reason.
I don't object to our troops having everything they need
I say we start at the beginning. What do our troops actually need at its most fundamental level? How about a clear mission that is headed towards an ultimate clear goal. Do this, achieve that, go home.
Consider how many times the goal posts have been moved in Iraq. First it was WMD's and to save the nation which was in imminent danger. Then it was liberating the people from an evil tyrant. Then it was capturing and trying this tyrant, then it was to stabilize the nation, and on and on.
What was our mission in Afghanistan to begin with, capture Osama Bin Laden who happens to still be at large according to many. Over throw the Taliban government that harbored Al Qaeda, well they're gone and have been for quite some time.
We now hunt "taliban" but this is a generic term that applies to group holding a common belief set. Even our own government and NATO both refer to "good taliban and bad taliban", as Taliban might more aptly be described in terms like Democrat or Republican. Are we going to hunt everyone who secretly in their mind harbors shared feelings and sentiments as previous Taliban? Good luck with that.
So our mission has changed, morphed and evolved since it started and it continues to do so. After 10 years this war is expanding and growing despite great numbers of boots on the ground, so what exactly do our troops need?
Of course my answer to giving the troops what they need is a plane flight back to the United States, each and every one of them, but until that time comes, and one day it will, what exactly does one need to achieve the impossible if not a miracle?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
