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It's laughable that the "so called reporters" on mainstream tv reported all this ethanol nonsense as "science". The media morons play their part in the puppet show and fuel support for the "cause." Al Gore should be brought up on fraud chargers. He was never interested in the enviornment. Why do so few Americans actually look as what he does and how he lives, rather than simply what he says? The "green" wooden indian lives in a huge mansion which uses all kinds of super amounts of energy and he drives big SUV's and he flies around in a private jet. He was never concerned about HIS carbon footprint. Why should I be concerned about mine?
I'm against corn based ethanol simply because it is a money waster. It takes more petroleum based fertilizers to grow the corn, transport it, and turn it into ethanol then we get back in petroleum equivalents by using the ethanol. It's a net oil sink so it not only costs huge amounts of money (paid for by tax payers in the form of subsidies) but it doesn't do a damn thing to make us energy independent. What it does do is spike the price of corn (which we already subsidize the hell out of, again, at tax payer expense) so it is hugely popular in the corn belt. Honestly, the agro-corps like Cargill and ADM need to make their own ways through life without endlessly stealing tax payer money. Either they can justify their economic existence on their own or they should go out of business.
The big problem is there just isn't enough sugar in corn to make much ethanol so you need vast quantities of highly processed corn to make the process viable. It would be much better to just import raw sugar made from sugar cane (which has loads of sugar in it and actually ends up producing more ethanol then oil equivalents it consumes to grow) and using that to make ethanol then it does to make it out of corn. Brazil is largely energy independent because of modest oil reserves and the fact that it is by far the world's largest sugar cane producer (which they use to make ethanol). Of course, Brazil is located in the tropics so sugar cane grows like a weed while it won't even grow in most of the US so we should just let tropical countries grow sugar while we concentrate on refining it to ethanol.
I'm against corn based ethanol simply because it is a money waster. It takes more petroleum based fertilizers to grow the corn, transport it, and turn it into ethanol then we get back in petroleum equivalents by using the ethanol. It's a net oil sink so it not only costs huge amounts of money (paid for by tax payers in the form of subsidies) but it doesn't do a damn thing to make us energy independent. What it does do is spike the price of corn (which we already subsidize the hell out of, again, at tax payer expense) so it is hugely popular in the corn belt. Honestly, the agro-corps like Cargill and ADM need to make their own ways through life without endlessly stealing tax payer money. Either they can justify their economic existence on their own or they should go out of business.
The big problem is there just isn't enough sugar in corn to make much ethanol so you need vast quantities of highly processed corn to make the process viable. It would be much better to just import raw sugar made from sugar cane (which has loads of sugar in it and actually ends up producing more ethanol then oil equivalents it consumes to grow) and using that to make ethanol then it does to make it out of corn. Brazil is largely energy independent because of modest oil reserves and the fact that it is by far the world's largest sugar cane producer (which they use to make ethanol). Of course, Brazil is located in the tropics so sugar cane grows like a weed while it won't even grow in most of the US so we should just let tropical countries grow sugar while we concentrate on refining it to ethanol.
Wow! In my opinion, you nailed it on this issue! Bravo!! I really enjoyed reading your post.
I could have told him that the first time a tank of old ethanol fouled my chain saw and lawn mowers. It will, if it sits there undisturbed for a few months, such as over the winter.
It'll also foul old air-cooled Volkswagen motors.
It will also make mush of the rubber seats Briggs & Stratton uses in many of their carburetors for their small engines. I had to replace the needle and seats in a compressor and a high pressure washer this year.
I'm against corn based ethanol simply because it is a money waster. It takes more petroleum based fertilizers to grow the corn, transport it, and turn it into ethanol then we get back in petroleum equivalents by using the ethanol. It's a net oil sink so it not only costs huge amounts of money (paid for by tax payers in the form of subsidies) but it doesn't do a damn thing to make us energy independent. What it does do is spike the price of corn (which we already subsidize the hell out of, again, at tax payer expense) so it is hugely popular in the corn belt. Honestly, the agro-corps like Cargill and ADM need to make their own ways through life without endlessly stealing tax payer money. Either they can justify their economic existence on their own or they should go out of business.
The big problem is there just isn't enough sugar in corn to make much ethanol so you need vast quantities of highly processed corn to make the process viable. It would be much better to just import raw sugar made from sugar cane (which has loads of sugar in it and actually ends up producing more ethanol then oil equivalents it consumes to grow) and using that to make ethanol then it does to make it out of corn. Brazil is largely energy independent because of modest oil reserves and the fact that it is by far the world's largest sugar cane producer (which they use to make ethanol). Of course, Brazil is located in the tropics so sugar cane grows like a weed while it won't even grow in most of the US so we should just let tropical countries grow sugar while we concentrate on refining it to ethanol.
That hits the nail on the head unfortunately though the agro-corps have beat you to it and as a result have gotten the government to implement massive tariffs on sugar that make it very difficult to import in the quantities needed.
USDA Sets 2010 Sugar Tariff-Rate Quotas | Imperial Sugar Company Online Newsroom (http://www.iscnewsroom.com/2009/09/25/usda-set-2010-sugar-tariff-rate-quotas/ - broken link)
It will also make mush of the rubber seats Briggs & Stratton uses in many of their carburetors for their small engines. I had to replace the needle and seats in a compressor and a high pressure washer this year.
First of all, yes, it attacks rubber seals but the concentrations have to be quite high (above 50% ethanol by volume) before that becomes a factor so don't put E85 (which is 85% ethanol) in and you'll be fine. Most gas now days only has about 10% ethanol and there will be no damage at that level. Second of all for about $150 per car the cheap rubber seals can be replaced with synthetic seals which will not be damaged even by 100% ethanol. Any car sold as a Flex Fuel Vehicle (which is a surprisingly huge number, if your car was made in the last 10 years it probably is one) then it already has those better seals.
That hits the nail on the head unfortunately though the agro-corps have beat you to it and as a result have gotten the government to implement massive tariffs on sugar that make it very difficult to import in the quantities needed.
USDA Sets 2010 Sugar Tariff-Rate Quotas | Imperial Sugar Company Online Newsroom (http://www.iscnewsroom.com/2009/09/25/usda-set-2010-sugar-tariff-rate-quotas/ - broken link)
Yep, plus never forget that politicians, lobbyists, and congress critters from corn growing states just love to slap trade restrictions on real sugar even while the waste tens of billions of dollars subsidizing inefficient and wasteful corn over production. Granted our political system is so corrupt and special interest money literally owns both parties so nothing is ever likely to change for the better but simply ending market distorting subsidies and tariffs will result in a huge increase in ethanol production using regular old fashioned sugar (which world wide is at record low prices, much lower then even heavily subsidized high fructose corn syrup) will instantly take over the market. That's a win-win for tax payers because 1) we won't have to flush tens of billions of dollars down the toilet on wasteful agricultural subsidies and 2) free trade will allow for a more efficient allocation of economic resources rather then the retarded corn based ethanol which can only exist behind massive tariffs.
AL Gore is the prime example of government at work.
Manipulative and Phony and Wrong most of the time.
You're not very bright if you think the corn ethanol policy had anything to do with global warming or energy independence. It's always been highly, highly, highly supported by both Republicans and Democrats from Farm states because they both knew it was always about corporate subsidies and buying votes in fly over country plus it was a way to clear the massive glut of corn from the market. The subsidies are doing what subsidies always do; encourage uneconomicly viable over production. They subsidize corn because Cargill and ADM's lobbyists wanted to line their pockets with taxpayer money, then when there was a massive glut of corn caused by over production because of the subsidies they needed to figure out something to do with all that excess corn, thus the idea of fermenting it. The problem is it is hugely inefficient, this reality will never change much, and tax payers lose at every step of the way. Simply get rid of the tariffs and subsidies and let the free market work and we'll all be better off.
Yep, plus never forget that politicians, lobbyists, and congress critters from corn growing states just love to slap trade restrictions on real sugar even while the waste tens of billions of dollars subsidizing inefficient and wasteful corn over production. Granted our political system is so corrupt and special interest money literally owns both parties so nothing is ever likely to change for the better but simply ending market distorting subsidies and tariffs will result in a huge increase in ethanol production using regular old fashioned sugar (which world wide is at record low prices, much lower then even heavily subsidized high fructose corn syrup) will instantly take over the market. That's a win-win for tax payers because 1) we won't have to flush tens of billions of dollars down the toilet on wasteful agricultural subsidies and 2) free trade will allow for a more efficient allocation of economic resources rather then the retarded corn based ethanol which can only exist behind massive tariffs.
Not only that, Americans are getting robbed everytime they go to the grocery store. This has resulted in both corn and sugar prices getting artificially high (in the US), which results in all sorts of other products from beef to cola getting more costly as well. Not to mention as a flavoring agent corn syrup cannot hold a candle to real sugar.
Randomstudent, I completely agree with both the economic points you made and the taste issue you made. I actually prefer Mexican made Coca-Cola to American made because in just about every other country then the US and Canada real sugar is used in soda instead of high fructose corn syrup. At one level sugar is sugar but really syrup feels slippery or slimy on your tongue while pure granulated sugar has a crisper cleaner feel and taste. There is no slimy coating in your mouth with real sugar the way syrup does.
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