Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That's a blatantly false statement. Their have always been "homeless" people, you just didn't call them "homeless" before the 1980s when "homlessness" became a $60 Billion a year business that people make money off of.
Actually it's been going on for more than 250,000 years.
Their were "homeless" Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens Sapiens, but that's beside the point.
Thanks to you and people like you, namely liberals, the only thing we can do at this point is to throw money at a problem.
Before people found out how profitable the "homeless" could be, they were called vagrants.
When we define the "unemployed" we use an established criteria which is a three-prong test:
1] You must be available to work
2] You must want to be employed
3] You must be actively be seeking employment
When we define the "homeless" we also use an established criteria which is also a three-prong test:
1] You must be available for permanent housing
2] You must want permanent housing
3] You must actively be seeking permanent housing
The "homeless" fail the test, so they aren't really homeless.
If you want to help the "homeless," then stop interfering. It is your interference and the interference of others like you that has exasperated the problem.
Of the people you erroneously claim to be "homeless"
1] About 1%-2% truly are. These persons are "homeless" by circumstance, however, they are not "homeless" very long because they meet criteria of the objective three-prong test. Here's an example: A veteran has a good paying job and a nice apartment. He get's busted for DUI and during the process takes a swing at a Boone County police officer. He's in lock-up. For about 6 months. He lost his job. He was evicted from his apartment. His car was seized and the repossessed. Once he was released, he was effectively "homeless." He stayed at the Drop-In Center in Over-the-Rhine in Cincinnati, then went to Mount Airy Men's Shelter, a "homeless" shelter paid for by the tax-payers of Hamilton County. During that time he attended drug and alcohol classes at the VA Hospital (where I met him) and he eventually got another job, saved up money living at the shelter and then moved into another shelter sponsored by Goodwill Industries, and then eventually had enough money saved up to purchase furniture and house-hold goods and move into an apartment.
2] About 10%-12% of the "homeless" are nutters. These people are whacked. When I came to the US back 2001 I used to work at the Potter Stewart Federal Courthouse in the city and would see a lot of these people wandering around or pan-handling at lunch. Even today I still see these people, the guy with the dreds, they guy that walks around with his hands over his ears (he hears voices), the lady with all of her bags she drags around etc etc.
Thanks to you and people like you and especially the ACLU, there is nothing we can do for those people, because you have used the courts to tie our hands behind our backs.
So congratulations for dicking them over.
Thanks to court actions by you and people like you, we cannot confine them, nor can we force them to take their medication which would allow them to function somewhat normally and possibly hold a real job.
Then you have the gall to sit there smugly and demand that we throw money at those people. There's no way to help those people. They are mental, and they need psychiatric help, and they need medication, and they need supervision, and you have done everything in your power to ensure that we cannot get them the psychiatric help they need, or the medication they need or the supervision they need.
I hope you feel really good about that.
3] The remainder of the "homeless" are not "homeless" they are street people: vagrants. They love living on the street. It is exciting to them as each day brings something new and different and a challenge to get enough money to buy beer, drugs or sex. Those people have no desire to live in any permanent form of housing. We can look at the St Petersburg Times for an instructive article about these people. The tax payers of St Petersburg built an $8 Million state-of-the-art "homeless" shelter and it is unused.
The "homeless" didn't want to stay there because there are, um, "rules" like they have to be in the shelter by 11:00 PM, they can't leave once they're inside, they can't sleep all day either as they have to be out of bed by 8:00 AM so they can participate in activities that lead to a job and permanent housing, which is exactly what they don't want.
We see the same thing here in Cincinnati. The city tells the Drop-In Center it's funding is being cut unless it does something, so the Drop-In creates some new rules, like you have to a state-issued ID card to stay there, you have to be in by 9:00 PM to get a bed, you have to be out by 8:00 AM etc etc and they revolt and now they have this "Homeless Congress" where they are fighting for their god given unalienable right to sleep of their drug/alcohol/sex-fest all day at tax-payer expense.
And of course they are fighting for their god given unalienable right to urinate, defecate and sleep in Washington Park to the exclusion of all other residents of the city and that problem has been exasperated because about 2 months ago a police cruiser drove over and killed an "homeless" woman sleeping in the park while chasing a suspect.
The overwhelming vast majority of those people have drug and/or alcohol addictions. A 30-day program is not going to help them. Such a program is only marginally successful for those who have been substance abusers for less than 6 months.
When you have people who have been substance abusers for years and years and years, it's going to take more than a 30-day "feel good" program.
You need intense behavior modification, and that requires some form of confinement and restriction, as well as supervision by psychologists.
In Eastern Europe we just round up street people and send them off to a farm or coal-mine/salt-mine to work like a dog for the next 12-15 years and maybe when they finally "get it" they'll ask the world to stop so they can get back on it.
That's what you need to do in the US. Round up the "homeless" and put them in an environment that is highly supervised and extremely regimented where a typical day consists of 8-10 hours of hard labor and another 4-6 hours of intense workshops and group therapy in drug and alcohol abuse, anger management, personal financial responsibility, emotional wellness and so on. It will take about 7 to 12 years to break their addiction and modify their behavior to the extent that they no longer have the desire to live on the streets.
We can't do that here in the US, because pan-handling on the streets and urinating, defecating, sleeping, drinking and doing drugs in public parks is protected speech under the 1st Amendment thanks to you and people like you.
So yet again you have tied everyone's hands behind their backs and now you're going to attempt to shout everyone down who doesn't want to waste several $Billion in tax payer dollars doing absolutely nothing to solve the problem.
And before you start spouting off at the mouth about "families" in "homeless" shelters, there are none.
Well there's a women and her children in a homeless shelter..... Yeah, I'm sure there is and I'm also equally certain that she is either the non-custodial parent and has illegally taken the children and is in hiding, or she is fleeing an arrest warrant, or she has been convicted of a drug or other offense and fled to avoid the sentencing hearing or something similar to that. Police and private investigators will tell you that's the first place they look when there are missing children and custody is possibly an issue. You'll typically find them there are find they were there and moved on.
You also don't seem to understand that the "homeless" is a $60 Billion a year business. It spans various groups like "homeless coalitions and homeless congresses and other homeless advocacy groups who get lots and lots of money from the federal, state, county and city governments as well as private philanthropic organizations, religions organizations and groups, businesses and other private groups.
They have a vested interest in perpetuating the plight of the "homeless" because they make money off of it. It is a career. The director of the Drop-In Center is not driving around in a beat-up Ford Pinto. The staff drives Acuras and Lexus and BMWs and Mercedes.
There's also the "politics of power." Those people are nobodies, but because they perpetuate "homelessness" they are constantly in the spot-light doing interviews with local television, cable access, local newspapers and magazines, press conferences, lobbying, news letters, their internet web-site and blogs and twits, demonstrations and marches and candle-light vigils and such.
Don't start snarling at ME, about 'tying anyone's hands'! And you can quit now, with the 'homelessness existed before the 80s' rant. For the gagillianth time, I only mentioned the 80s as a starting point, because the media exposed the homeless problem at that time!
And liberals, didn't create the homeless problem. The war on poverty that was implemented in the 60s, became a war on the poor, by the 80s. As this country has swung more and more to the right, more and more people, have fallen into poverty.
All those manufacturing jobs that used to give blue collar workers a good living, have been eliminated. Gobs of good paying white collar jobs, have been sent overseas. Unions are practically nonexistent now. And during this great recession, we all know how unemployment has skyrocketed, and can't seem to come down. I dare you to prove, how liberals are responsible for increasing poverty and homelessness.
There might be a few homeless people, who don't want to be helped. But for those who want to be helped, and have roofs over their heads, then we need to get busy finding solutions to help them.
And what have you yourself, done to help any poor or homeless person? If you right wing conservatives had your way, you'd make it legal to go out, and gun down all of the homeless people, and then give yourselves a pat on the back!
Not necessarily. I think that the main solution, is to provide affordable housing, for those who need it most.
Seriously?
Basically you are saying that if you were a doctor and someone came in with a broken leg, you would give them some painkillers and send them away? Just get rid of the pain and forget about what caused it?
Why don't we set the leg, even if it is a little painful for a while?
There were people that were homeless before the 80s. But homelessness didn't become a widespread problem in America, until the 80s.
Regardless, it has not been a priority for a long time.
Some poeple actually like being homelass. Some also like being in jail. I'd love to see the US help the homeless find homes, but it will never go away completlely.
[quote=artwomyn;16782325]Don't start snarling at ME, about 'tying anyone's hands'! And you can quit now, with the 'homelessness existed before the 80s' rant. For the gagillianth time, I only mentioned the 80s as a starting point, because the media exposed the homeless problem at that time!
Really? Let's get to the real reason you mentioned the 80's, it's because a Republican was in office. Thats the only reason, your thinly veiled attacks on the right are getting tired.
Liberals support unions, unions make domesticly produced products more expensive to produce forcing companies to build things overseas for cheaper. Unions have themselves to blame, as do liberals.
Don't start snarling at ME, about 'tying anyone's hands'! And you can quit now, with the 'homelessness existed before the 80s' rant. For the gagillianth time, I only mentioned the 80s as a starting point, because the media exposed the homeless problem at that time!
Really? Let's get to the real reason you mentioned the 80's, it's because a Republican was in office. Thats the only reason, your thinly veiled attacks on the right are getting tired.
Liberals support unions, unions make domesticly produced products more expensive to produce forcing companies to build things overseas for cheaper. Unions have themselves to blame, as do liberals.
Yes it's absolutely true. As I've mentioned, people are losing their homes more than ever, because they've become unemployed and have run out of financial resources. If you don't know that, then you must be living in a cave, with no access to the media.
Normal people without addictions do not become homeless. Regardless of their situation. Normal people will move into cheaper living quarters and take a lower paying job because they can.
The homeless have been and always will be with us. Treat them well. Hand them a sandwich or a few bucks when you can.
These people are addicts and mentally ill. How do you help people who do not want to help themselves?
I know that this doesn't fit into your world view, but it is the truth.
Normal people without addictions do not become homeless. Regardless of their situation. Normal people will move into cheaper living quarters and take a lower paying job because they can.
The homeless have been and always will be with us. Treat them well. Hand them a sandwich or a few bucks when you can.
These people are addicts and mentally ill. How do you help people who do not want to help themselves?
I know that this doesn't fit into your world view, but it is the truth.
There's plenty of homeless people, who are not homeless due to mental illness or addictions. Especially with this economy, ANYONE can become homeless. And it could happen to you, me or anyone, if you don't have a support system, and savings. People like you just want to stereotype the homeless, because you don't care about them, one way or the other.
There's plenty of homeless people, who are not homeless due to mental illness or addictions. Especially with this economy, ANYONE can become homeless. And it could happen to you, me or anyone, if you don't have a support system, and savings. People like you just want to stereotype the homeless, because you don't care about them, one way or the other.
Take a stroll in NYC. When you approach the first homeless person you see(which won't take you that long) invite them into your home. And when they either stab you, or smear your walls with their feces then your feelings will change. Or you know what they probably won't.
The homeless problem started up in the 80s, after Reagan became President. And it's been going on now, for over 30 years. Homelessness has continued to increase, since the great recession began over two years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn
There were people that were homeless before the 80s. But homelessness didn't become a widespread problem in America, until the 80s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn
But widespread homelessness started up, mainly in the early 80s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn
Many of the hippies, were homeless by choice. As for the Vietnam vets, they didn't start showing up on the streets en mass, until housing prices started to skyrocket, in the 80s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn
I only mentioned the 80s, because that's when the media started recognizing homelessness, as a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn
As I said before, I focused on the 80s, because that's when the media began to spread awareness about homelessness.
It's obvious that you don't have a grasp on homelessness in America. You believe what YOU want to believe. And when called to the carpet on it you basically say "well I said it, but I meant something else".
Mircea took some time to provide you with a fantastically well thought and presented post regarding the truth about homelessness - but you dismiss him/her out of hand.
Did you know that the most common length of time someone is homeless is 36 to 48 hours? And half of those people will never be homeless again.
In this country there's only about 100,000 people on any given day who are chronically homeless .... hardly the explosion you yammer about.
Bravo! Repping you. Thank you particularly for the comments about the ACLU. I hope the OP will see the truth in your words.
[quote=Mircea;16781295]That's a blatantly false statement. Their have always been "homeless" people, you just didn't call them "homeless" before the 1980s when "homlessness" became a $60 Billion a year business that people make money off of.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
