For those who think socialism is so horrible... (claim, Oregon, minorities)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Based on the abysmal results of the past two years, Keynesiam should be dead and buried forever, at least in this country, since it has never been rebuked so thoroughly and resoundingly as it has over the past 24 months.
Agree, and when it's coupled with the Crony Capitalism that we have seen recently, it's a disaster.
You do know that using phrases such as "sheeple" is another way of saying "I know I've lost the discussion, but don't know how to admit that, so I'm going to use name-calling instead" right?
Anyway, no-one is stopping you from living in a tent somewhere, with no interaction with any other human being. Even though you'd be running off with the amount it cost to teach you to read, write, basic hygiene, germ theory of disease, etc, etc, etc.
Meanwhile, people who have not yet suffered a disconnect between being a part of society and pulling our weight in it, will continue to enjoy dentistry, indoor plumbing and the presence of members of the opposite sex.
1. Sheeple is a common term for people who act like sheep, meekly being sheared (robbed), over and over. No slur intended to sheep.
2. There is no requirement that honoring property rights and sovereignty of the people requires one to forgo civilization. In fact, socialism is anathema to civilization, being that it encourages theft and slavery. Socialism, by definition, abolishes private property rights and substitutes qualified ownership.
3. There is no prerequisite that cooperation in defense of property rights must require a surrender of those property rights. In fact, socialism requires deception and a heightened propaganda ministry to persuade the victims to go along with the scam.
The U.S.A. has been socialist for generations. But full implementation was done slowly so as not to upset the victims - ahem - new socialists.
CAPITALISM - An economic system in which the means of production, distribution and exchange are privately owned and operated for private profit.
WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY
PRIVATE PROPERTY - "As protected from being taken for public uses, is such property as belongs absolutely to an individual, and of which he has the exclusive right of disposition. Property of a specific, fixed and tangible nature, capable of being in possession and transmitted to another, such as houses, lands, and chattels."
- - - Black's Law dictionary, sixth ed., p.1217
If you concatenate capitalism with private property, you can see the "inconvenient truth".
Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production, distribution and exchange are absolutely owned by individuals and operated for their individual profit.
Since the government takes a share, by socialist taxation, or all of it, if you fail to pay your share, absolute ownership is no longer present in America - by voluntary consent.
Well, let's look at a list of socialist economies;
Cuba
Laos
Viet Nam
China
North Korea
Venezuela
..... and you call them "far more stable" ???
OK, I guess Cuba has been stable for quite some time. Stable in the ditch.
Most of those governments are much more stable than ours. I would certainly say that America was on the cusp of something dangerous had the economy gotten much worse, and if more left-wing legislation had made it through(got guns?).
Sure, those countries aren't nearly as rich as ours. But they never were to begin with. As for why they are failing, it isn't so much that their governments are doing such a terrible job for the people. But more that the Western nations of the world want them to fail so badly that they are trying to keep the "boot on their neck" through sanctions and other economic warfare.
Cuba would improve dramatically if America would stop prohibiting trade with Cuba, and if we stopped prohibiting Americans from going to Cuba. And really, it would help America too, as Cuba is in desperate need of automobiles. But we are so hell-bent on the failure of something we can't control that we would choose to force the people into poverty just to get what we want. And then we have China and Vietnam which are our communist buddies? Why? Because they have something we need, and they allow us to control them. The whole thing is pathetic, and you should be ashamed.
"According to a Swiss federal government statistical comparison of Switzerland and Sweden (http://www.statistik.admin.ch/stat_int/eint_s.htm - broken link), the percentage of Swedish unmarried pregnancies in 1996 was 54% percent — roughly equal to the black community in the United States. The reason for this high rate of unwed pregnancies is apparent in both cases, and it is not illegal drugs: the state gives incentives to unwed mothers in the form of social benefits, with predictable results. Why go through the hassle of getting married or staying married when a government check means that such a decision has no practical consequences for your life? Over the long-term, a 54% illegitimacy rate can only undermine Swedish society."
Cuba would improve dramatically if America would stop prohibiting trade with Cuba, and if we stopped prohibiting Americans from going to Cuba. And really, it would help America too, as Cuba is in desperate need of automobiles. But we are so hell-bent on the failure of something we can't control that we would choose to force the people into poverty just to get what we want. And then we have China and Vietnam which are our communist buddies? Why? Because they have something we need, and they allow us to control them. The whole thing is pathetic, and you should be ashamed.
Cuba does business with over 100 countries so why hasn't their situation improved? If not for the embargo, the US would be sinking billions into the hands of the Castro's (and maybe even Chavez) with no benefit to the Cuban people. They're starving, they have no meds, they're taught and fed propaganda all day long and to make matters worse, Cuba has become a cesspool for sleazy Europeans looking for sex. Oh yeah, the Castro's have a lot of IOU's, they've never even made an attempt to pay any country that has loaned them money so tell me again why the US should...
The thing that boggles my mind about many of these conservatives that bash communism is how they claim to be such great Christians. I'm not even religious and I know Jesus Christ himself said, "Blessed are the poor; woe to the rich." It also says in the Bible it's easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Go figure!
Look, it is like it was trying to reason with the hardcore communists in the 70s. A lot of statements, and the strong belief that stating something made it true outside the head of the person saying so. As was made quite apparent at the collapse of communism 15 years later, that was a mistaken assumption.
No actual ability to look at the world, and correlate their theories with real world observation.
You spend an amazing amount of time on here, making massive posts which are basically reiterations of how you think things work. Use less of your time on statements about how you think things work. Take some time off the net, get a job, talk to people, travel. Basically, get some real knowledge to fill in the theory.
"According to a Swiss federal government statistical comparison of Switzerland and Sweden (http://www.statistik.admin.ch/stat_int/eint_s.htm - broken link), the percentage of Swedish unmarried pregnancies in 1996 was 54% percent — roughly equal to the black community in the United States. The reason for this high rate of unwed pregnancies is apparent in both cases, and it is not illegal drugs: the state gives incentives to unwed mothers in the form of social benefits, with predictable results. Why go through the hassle of getting married or staying married when a government check means that such a decision has no practical consequences for your life? Over the long-term, a 54% illegitimacy rate can only undermine Swedish society."
That sounds like someone thinks that unmarreid pregnancy = no stable relationship. The above statistic is one that shows how marriage is being replaced, not kids growing up without a father.
"The relationships of the parents are much less stable in the U.S. than a lot of other countries," she says. "In Europe, where there are high levels of childbearing outside of marriage, when childbearing is not happening in marriage, it's happening in cohabitation. Cohabitations are reasonably stable."
"According to a Swiss federal government statistical comparison of Switzerland and Sweden (http://www.statistik.admin.ch/stat_int/eint_s.htm - broken link), the percentage of Swedish unmarried pregnancies in 1996 was 54% percent — roughly equal to the black community in the United States. The reason for this high rate of unwed pregnancies is apparent in both cases, and it is not illegal drugs: the state gives incentives to unwed mothers in the form of social benefits, with predictable results. Why go through the hassle of getting married or staying married when a government check means that such a decision has no practical consequences for your life? Over the long-term, a 54% illegitimacy rate can only undermine Swedish society."
That's not the whole picture thought, unfortunately for the "case" you are trying to make.
A very popular practice in Sweden is for couples, young, old, whatever- to shack up before getting married. Or even, in spite of being unwed. Of course you may say, people all over the globe do this. For whatever sane reason, Sweden has an actual legal, tax applicable status for this. And one not need wait many years to get it.
The fact is, the government actually recognizes the fact that there are many "legitimate" couples throughout the land who live together, unwed, are tax paying, working citizens and so yes, they do afford recognition to unwed mothers.
As well as maternity leave and promise of good medical care. A lot to analyze and gripe about, eh?
I take it you probably have never lived in Sweden, know any Swedish people nor nothing much about the place except for cherry picked articles.
Sweden certainly has it's problems, but they are actually fairly minuscule in comparison to the issues of many other Western nations.
read through the article and really found it quite interesting.
From the article:
"At the risk of saying something which the editors of Tribune may not endorse, I suggest that the real objective of Socialism is not happiness. Happiness hitherto has been a by-product, and for all we know it may always remain so. The real objective of Socialism is human brotherhood. This is widely felt to be the case, though it is not usually said, or not said loudly enough."
Also thoroughly enjoyed the author's integration of "ideals" of heaven and hell and the relative blandness of the former, in common depiction.
I definitely think that, especially now, a common misperception of the very ideal of Socialism is that its idealists envision some perfect clockwork world, sanitized, free of tension and utterly static and average. The author explains it far better than I can, but I am willing to guess that the average "idealist" simply seeks to imagine, by any means possible, a well functioning society without extreme divisiveness as well as the very, very basic "brotherly" knowledge of knowing that all your neighbors have bread to break with their family.
Obviously, socialism is not needed for imagining such a thing, but all of this really becomes an exercise in personal values matched against societal ones.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.