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Imagine that you are the owner of a struggling small business...
Now imagine not knowing whether or not the new guy that you are about to hire is a convicted rapist, murderer, pedophile etc...
My experience with people has shown me that they rarely ever change on a deep level. They are what they are and employers have the right to know who and what they are hiring.
Besides, don't break the law if you can't deal with the consequences. Having a prison record is just part of the package. Welcome to reality.
Sorry that you only see the ugly side of humanity. We've survived for centuries without criminal records. Like I said the object of having records accessible only for law enforcement and the justice system, is to make sure that if they are caught again twice for the same crime, LE knows who they are, and they can increase their sentence like they always do for repeat offenders. Denying people employment, just because they had a lapse in judgement, is abuse IMO. You can't paint all criminals with one brush and say they are the devil's spawn. Why do you think black and other minority communities are stuck in the same vicious cycle of crime? Without access to employment, the can only turn to gangs and drug dealing, chop shops, extortions, kidnapping, etc. because that's what really desperate poor people DO. I think the lengthy jail terms we have are good enough. There's no need to wet your pants because you don't know who someone is. YOU get real.
I bet if it were up to you every little crime on the books right now would be a death sentence eh? That would make it so much easier and don't have to deal with records checks
If I was black this would make me angry. Like affirmative action it's just one more thing that suggests that blacks can't compete on an even playing field. Ideas like this are inherently racist -if you think about it long enough you will see the truth in this statement.
It's NOT an even playing field. It is the dead opposite of an even playing field right now. What you see as "uneven" is what white people get normally. Blacks aren't arrested 13 times more than whites because they're more predisposed to criminal behavior than whites, its because they're black. Calling it an "even playing field" is about as disrespectful as it gets. Princeton did a study where it was found that white ex-convict high school graduates are as likely to be hired as black high school graduates with no record. The vast majority of what blacks are arrested for is drug charges... they make up 70% of drug arrests. more than half of all federal inmates are in on drug charges. Are you really going to tell me that in the numbers game there's less white people who do drugs than blacks? Whites just don't get arrested for it 1/13 of the time that they should be. Police aren't frisking young white people in white neighborhoods... go to any high school in the country and there will be about the same percentage of kids using drugs. Why is there a SMALLER NUMBER of white people in jail then when they make up 80% of the country? Even playing field my ***.
Criminal records are one thing. Personally, I don't see how any employer could ignore a criminal background for anything that resulted in jail time. That could result in a seriously dangerous situation.
The check that I take exception to is the credit check. I held a 790 average for close to 15 years. Then, I hit a streak of bad luck and made a couple poor choices, and now I'm wallowing in the low 600's.
I'll be looking for a federal job in a short time. They do credit checks. I find it funny that a government that is in trillions of $$ of debt, and bailing out wall street could deny a skilled and educated job prospect employment due to credit issues. Pot meet kettle.
You'd think you would have something to brag about for obtaining a federal job.
I don't think the Government's debt was caused by a streak of bad luck.
You might have to demonstrate to them that you are totally irresponsible in order to be accepted into their flock.
Sorry that you only see the ugly side of humanity. We've survived for centuries without criminal records. Like I said the object of having records accessible only for law enforcement and the justice system, is to make sure that if they are caught again twice for the same crime, LE knows who they are, and they can increase their sentence like they always do for repeat offenders. Denying people employment, just because they had a lapse in judgement, is abuse IMO. You can't paint all criminals with one brush and say they are the devil's spawn. Why do you think black and other minority communities are stuck in the same vicious cycle of crime? Without access to employment, the can only turn to gangs and drug dealing, chop shops, extortions, kidnapping, etc. because that's what really desperate poor people DO. I think the lengthy jail terms we have are good enough. There's no need to wet your pants because you don't know who someone is. YOU get real.
I bet if it were up to you every little crime on the books right now would be a death sentence eh? That would make it so much easier and don't have to deal with records checks
Come on. Most of the time you and I see things eye to eye, but we just happen to disagree here. No reason to get childish. Of course I wouldn't advocate the death sentence for every violation of the law.
And as for only seeing the "ugly side of humanity" I'm going to have to disagree with you again. What I "see" is reality. The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. There's no way around it. People need to understand that the decisions they make at relatively young ages have lifelong consequences. Who wants to hire a felon? It would be most unwise -foolhardy even.
The pragmatic are often accused of heavy-handedness.
It's NOT an even playing field. It is the dead opposite of an even playing field right now. What you see as "uneven" is what white people get normally. Blacks aren't arrested 13 times more than whites because they're more predisposed to criminal behavior than whites, its because they're black. Calling it an "even playing field" is about as disrespectful as it gets. Princeton did a study where it was found that white ex-convict high school graduates are as likely to be hired as black high school graduates with no record. The vast majority of what blacks are arrested for is drug charges... they make up 70% of drug arrests. more than half of all federal inmates are in on drug charges. Are you really going to tell me that in the numbers game there's less white people who do drugs than blacks? Whites just don't get arrested for it 1/13 of the time that they should be. Police aren't frisking young white people in white neighborhoods... go to any high school in the country and there will be about the same percentage of kids using drugs. Why is there a SMALLER NUMBER of white people in jail then when they make up 80% of the country? Even playing field my ***.
Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter victims are most frequently Black (67.0%) or Hispanic (28.1%). White victims account for (3.2%) of all Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter victims while Asian/Pacific Islanders account for (1.8%) of all Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter victims.
The Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter arrest population is similarly distributed. Black arrestees (53.8%) and Hispanic arrestees (36.4%) account for the majority of Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter arrestees while White arrestees (7.1%) and Asian/Pacific Islander (2.2%) arrestees account for the remaining portions of the Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter arrest population.
Shooting victims are most frequently Black (73.8%) or Hispanic (22.1 %). White victims account for an additional (2.6%) of all Shooting victims while Asian/Pacific Islanders victims account for (1.2%) of all Shooting Victims.
The Shooting arrest population is similarly distributed. Black arrestees (70.9%) and Hispanic arrestees (25.8%) account for the majority of Shooting arrest population. White arrestees (2.5%) and Asian/Pacific Islander (0.9%) account for the remaining portion of the Shooting arrest population.
It's NOT an even playing field. It is the dead opposite of an even playing field right now. What you see as "uneven" is what white people get normally. Blacks aren't arrested 13 times more than whites because they're more predisposed to criminal behavior than whites, its because they're black.
Right... they're not really committing crimes, they're just black.
Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter victims are most frequently Black (67.0%) or Hispanic (28.1%). White victims account for (3.2%) of all Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter victims while Asian/Pacific Islanders account for (1.8%) of all Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter victims.
The Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter arrest population is similarly distributed. Black arrestees (53.8%) and Hispanic arrestees (36.4%) account for the majority of Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter arrestees while White arrestees (7.1%) and Asian/Pacific Islander (2.2%) arrestees account for the remaining portions of the Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter arrest population.
Shooting victims are most frequently Black (73.8%) or Hispanic (22.1 %). White victims account for an additional (2.6%) of all Shooting victims while Asian/Pacific Islanders victims account for (1.2%) of all Shooting Victims.
The Shooting arrest population is similarly distributed. Black arrestees (70.9%) and Hispanic arrestees (25.8%) account for the majority of Shooting arrest population. White arrestees (2.5%) and Asian/Pacific Islander (0.9%) account for the remaining portion of the Shooting arrest population.
What's your point? The VAST majority of inmates are in on drug charges. Murderers are the minority in prison. And notice how this expunging of criminal records doesn't apply to murderers... unless you're being willfully deceiving, I don't understand why you thought the above statistic you posted was relevant to the thread you started or to the discussion we're having. Or maybe, the only point of this thread was for you to **** on black people. You wouldn't be the first on C-D and definitely won't be the last.
I could just have your number completely wrong but somehow I doubt it.
Is the expunging idea about expunging murderers? Oh right, this was addressed on page 1 of the thread.
Are white people not really committing crimes or are the vast majority of white people committing crimes not going to jail for it? Oh, and ignore the fact that its literally statistically impossible for there to be less whites in the jail system than minorities because addiction and criminal behavior have nothing to do with race. Let's just pretend that the playing field is equal instead because it is on paper.
Come on. Most of the time you and I see things eye to eye, but we just happen to disagree here. No reason to get childish. Of course I wouldn't advocate the death sentence for every violation of the law.
And as for only seeing the "ugly side of humanity" I'm going to have to disagree with you again. What I "see" is reality. The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. There's no way around it. People need to understand that the decisions they make at relatively young ages have lifelong consequences. Who wants to hire a felon? It would be most unwise -foolhardy even.
The pragmatic are often accused of heavy-handedness.
Yes I agree with what you say, but here's the problem. Not everyone that has committed a crime, will do it again. A fair few number of people do learn their lesson. It's repeat offenders that don't learn and should be locked up for a while. I think I can probably meet you halfway on this. What if only minor misdemeanors didn't show up on criminal records? I'll agree with you that felons are a very different animal from misdemeanor offenders. I'm just trying to identify the cause of such a high recidivism rate in this country, and I think discrimination against people with background checks is a good start. Remember employment is the only gateway to get yourself out of a life of crime and poverty. If you can't have that, there's 2 choices most people make. Either they go into welfare or they join a gang.
Right now, jail time is also pretty much just a time out in the sandbox. We throw them in a cell and then don't bother with them until they are out. A lot of people in jail had poor upbringing and so, they are unable to reflect on what they have done because they weren't taught good enough. And I'm not making excuses for their behavior. I didn't have the upbringing that a lot of Americans had. I grew up basically in a fortress and had to learn the art of shutting in every night. Making sure that the covered deadbolt was locked on the front porch door that was covered with iron bars and then shutting the door behind it that also had an iron cage as backup. The iron garage door also I had to make sure that it was chain locked and the steel shutters over the iron bar covered windows was locked as well. This is what happens when you live on an island with over 15% unemployment and everyone living close together. But what I did have was a good decent upbringing and I've kept my nose clean. However I can't say for the rest of them. So, how do we solve this predicament? How do we strike a balance between protecting the law abiding citizens, like you and myself, from being attacked by a misdemeanor offender, while preventing that offender from hurting others because of poor life choices?
We have to do something. Because locking them up and releasing them into the wild, so to speak, isn't panning out like we hoped. Perhaps we should try the Singaporean approach and add caning to the list of sentences at a judge's disposal? I think a lot of people could use some spanking and spanking isn't bad. I was spanked when I was bad, and I'm a good citizen now.
Anyway, that's just my contribution for the evening. No one approach is perfect, but I think you and me agree that our current approach needs to be changed. I personally don't like my country being relegated to the status of prison nation, that's something reserved for North Korea or Cuba, not the U.S.
Are white people not really committing crimes or are the vast majority of white people committing crimes not going to jail for it?
You would know the answer to that if you had bothered to read the statistics:
Quote:
According to federal crime figures, homicide is the leading cause of death among African-American males aged 15 to 34. They also indicate that between 1976 and 2004, 94 percent of black murder victims were killed by black offenders.
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Get real.
and spanking isn't bad. I was spanked when I was bad, and I'm a good citizen now.
