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I am religious. The strength of Atheists is logic, not emotion. Focus hard on what it is precisely that you hate. Reason this through. Be a better Atheist.
The notion that an Atheist is like Spock on Star Trek, void of emotion and only logic, made me laugh
But, I can logically say, I understand miracles are in the eyes of the beholder and the phrase "blind faith" is essentially what religion is all about.
How should an atheist be a better Atheist? Can we disbelieve any more than we already do Simply ignoring the religious is impossible, since they are in our politics, the market place, the internet, on our street corners, at our door, at our schools, on our TV, in our tax system, in our wars, etc.
How about the religious being better. None of this - atheists will go to hell or they are no better than the KKK.
Atheists are probably some of the best folks you will ever meet The percentage of atheists that hate is exactly at .000001221% of all nonbelievers
It surely doesn't disprove, now does it!! Why hasn't Science tried to duplicate dirt? Have you noticed it's not talked about, and when some scientist can make a claim God doesn't exist, they do.
Haven't you ever wondered how an earth worm can be unisex?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds
I could say the same of you. You can go back to post #942, you never answered a question either. But, you are whining about others.
Sometimes, the post just get lost in the madness, no one is ignoring you and I will think the same of you!!
Hint.....I really don't care about the worm!!
There was no question...just incoherence and silliness..
That is so funny. Yes, the Unitarians are a puzzling bunch. I had a friend who went to a "gathering" not sure what they have, meetings? She said she had to leave and got more out of taking a walk. She is now a member of a Christian church.
You could say that Unitarians are the very opposite of atheists. Unitarians are all inclusive and believe anything and everything, while atheists believe nothing.
You could say that Unitarians are the very opposite of atheists. Unitarians are all inclusive and believe anything and everything, while atheists believe nothing.
There is nothing true in this statement at all. There are plenty of Unitarians who are atheists.
Unitarians are generally all inclusive, but they do not believe anything and everything.
Atheists believe in many things. Gods just aren't one of them.
Sorry to be so verbose, but... The conflict is imaginary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin
The notion that an Atheist is like Spock on Star Trek, void of emotion and only logic, made me laugh
I'm not going that far, but it's my understanding that Atheists are convinced based on pure logic. So live that out and know that the common language we would share is logic and reason. The common tie that binds us by law is the constitution. I do not see that Atheists have lost all compass in life, their moral sensibilities do not appear to have vanished into thin air, and they aren't jumping off bridges.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin
But, I can logically say, I understand miracles are in the eyes of the beholder and the phrase "blind faith" is essentially what religion is all about.
That's inconsistent with my experience. I opened my eyes and have no fear of my maker, but understand that some are not psychologically strong enough to deal with that degree of confrontation. This is the pragmatic function of clergy and it's not unique to Christianity. I'm older now but I can say in hindsight that trying to wrap my head around French Existentialism @ 19yrs old was so difficult for me that my reaction to it was anxiety attacks. I had to put it down and go back to it again down the road. My mind was not ready and the harder I'd try to buckle down in that course work the more impossible it became for me to focus on anything. Speaking of star trek- matter and anti matter in the wrong vessel go ka-blewy.
It's a very frightening thing for the human mind to confront itself, and it's own mortality. Do you believe that all human beings equally have the capacity to live up to that intellectual challenge, and if so, what is the appropriate age for them to confront mortality? The course of treatment for depression is not a copy of Nietzsche and atheists are not immune from PTSD. Based on my anecdotal personal experiences & observations I believe Atheists are in many ways at a disadvantage coping with the horrors of the world.
Please see a film called "Little Man Tate" if you don't understand what I'm getting at because it speaks to the heart of the matter. The dynamics of civilization and intellectual pursuit can and do run roughshod over human beings disrupting, and at times hobbling, the normal course of growth and development. This is the thing social conservatives find it very hard to articulate to liberally bent people but if you speak to each other in terms of each being a parent with a duty, you're bound to find mutually respectful solutions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin
How should an atheist be a better Atheist? Can we disbelieve any more than we already do
You can be secure enough in yourselves to refrain from even entertaining the notion of abolishing religion. I do know how you feel about those who are pushy about it and orientating themselves as master marketeers of God. I've had 5 knocks to my door trying to convert me to another faith, and yes, it is offensive to me. It's a nuisance liter on the train and on washing machines in the laundromats having these sensationalist tracts making a joke of Christianity. Using cartoon format to attract child like minds in and of itself is offensive to me because there is nothing about the teachings of Jesus that means to sneak in the back door or trick people. I strongly disagree. What more can I do than refuse to participate or refuse to lend credence?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin
Simply ignoring the religious is impossible, since they are in our politics, the market place, the internet, on our street corners, at our door, at our schools, on our TV, in our tax system, in our wars, etc.
I'm unclear why the existence of the actual religious is disturbing to you or anyone. Why should any one feel compelled to hide their identity? It shouldn't matter who the majority is, we should just be respectful of one another's rights uniformly. Amish found the constitutional manifestation of free society so offensive to their sensibilities undermining the rearing of their children that they chose to hole up in small communities and live their life free of material trappings of 'the english' <spits on the ground>. They're respected in their right to do so. Atheists are also free to do so if the majority really is that horribly disruptive or useless to you, and so are other denominations that mean to assert a theocratic society.
The vast majority of most religious in this country prefer to live a secular life balanced with religious tradition. They are in effect abiding a whole other set of rules in addition to US law. Earnest religious- their lives are harder for them to live out than it is for you to live yours. Please respect that they have voluntarily taken on that extra duty, they don't begrudge you that you've got it easier, and they do not intend others to pay for their choices. They should not be harassed for their religious practices. Name a religious practice that brings you harm and I'll consider your points in earnest. As for law we all abide- freedom to choose is ideal, but if you author policy that mandates they must go against their teachings, I must vehemently object. Forcing Jews or Atheist vegans to eat pork, is patently wrong and we don't have to be Jewish or vegan to defend them. We only have to be American.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin
How about the religious being better. None of this - atheists will go to hell or they are no better than the KKK.
When you say that I hear 2 children bickering in the backseat of the car. If we turn this around and you're the parent, how do you deal with harborlady and atheist 'X' smacking each other and whining ad infinitum?
Religious should be better and more often than not they actually are. Media has an OCD fixation with bad news (threats, fear, scandal, gossip, envy, materialism etc) and ignores good news because it's not profitable. That's a little sick, don't you think? My WV grandmother was an exceptionally pious woman and there is no mention of her life in any media outlet people lean on for information. There is no mention of her in history books of high regard, not worthy of cosmo magazine or the national enquirer. She satisfied herself that she was etched in my heart and in all the lives she deeply touched in a modest way. There are thousands upon thousands of salt of the earth Americans who will never see a spotlight. They hold up civilization in ways people living out abstract existence to the hilt are blinded. I think Mike Rowe does a very good job with his show Dirty Jobs. It's a huge mistake to take these people for granted. You might hear a train in the distance at night and perhaps get annoyed by the noise, but I hear human beings carrying the world for us all while we sleep. I can rest easy knowing someone competent is at the helm, or driving the bus, is on duty in the military, hospital etc. It may be a heavy responsibility or the most mundane of chores sweeping our streets. I am grateful. Christian work ethics made all this possible.
So are atheists better than the KKK? Do you understand the meaning of that statement? That organization, like AOG, like Taliban... they intend to annihilate a group of people in servicing an ideology of supremacy. It's one thing to be able to reject a lifestyle for ourselves in personal choices but another thing entirely to plot genocide. The moment hate speech organizes itself with a mission statement of annihilation they delete the operating system they mean to stand upon. Making sweeping statements that you mean to abolish religion is the same as annihilation. It's not physically possible for anyone to remove Catholicism from my bones without killing me, and most practicing religious will express similar sentiments. Our very identities are intertwined with religion. Hitler didn't have the power to remove Jew out of Jews.
If I were to animate myself within America to annihilate Protestants, to have Catholicism be the supreme rule of the land, I would cease to be Christian or American and this would no longer be America. Anarchists meaning to reform America is antithetical to their stated philosophy- if opposed to civilization of any sort how credible is it for them to be animated hijacking a train? Absolute freedom would be a nomadic existence in national forest seeing how long you can last on squirrel meat and stock trout. Leaning on civilization for any slight crumb of technology negates the philosophy of anarchy entirely. An anarchist textbook is ironic beyond belief because they are railing against the very language, the very paper, they are writing upon and demanding an audience of all who are integral parts of the civilization. Similarly, Atheists meaning to be rid of religion when so much of our civilization gave it basis to exist is more than a little intolerant. It's another brand of domination.
One way or another, there will always be a majority of one group or another. It's not as if we can level all playing fields to make blacks feel themselves less of a minority status by spray painting whites another color because really that's a humiliation of both if you think about it. Each just need to be what they are. Someday latinos may be the majority in America. Someday Atheists may be the majority. The thing of it is, America will cease to exist the day whomever is the majority means to dictate. The fact that Atheists, anarchists, Amish, Muslims, Mormons, hippies and a whole host of others all exist is testament that Christian majority has gone very far out of it's way to defend and protect the right for all to exist. They deserve credit for that effort, and respect is a 2 way street.
Same vein of thinking it took men of high principles to recognize that it was morally wrong for women to be prohibited from voting & treated as chattel. Women owe a debt of gratitude to those high principled men by living out that high principle defending the rights of all to vote, which includes men. Women are the factual majority of this nation and have not abused that potential by seizing the opportunity to revise the constitution to read "We the Women". I am obliged to defend my father, my son, and my brother equally as I defend my mother, daughter, and sister.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin
Atheists are probably some of the best folks you will ever meet The percentage of atheists that hate is exactly at .000001221% of all nonbelievers
I've met good folks from every walk of life, race, creed, orientation... my definition of good is very different from those who tend to behave clannish and cling to like minded affinity. If religion doesn't exist in your inner world, why is walking past a church more or less significant than walking past a tree or a parked car?
It's portrayed as an imaginary thing based on offhand dismissal treatment. You are in effect fanning the flames for religious zealotry in your disrespectful treatment and departure from logic. If you're confident that you're right what have you got to fear by simply reading the bible and understanding my reference? The book is right here in my hands and it's as if Atheists are insisting it's a figment of my imagination. I'm sorry, I can't help you. Have a nice day (and vortex of nothingness bless you?). See how hard it is to just speak to one another politely?
Morality as a subject is not limited to religious, but it is the religious traditions that have made it lifetime work to uphold morality in civilization. If they stumbled along the way or struggled hard to uphold it, does that constitute abject failure? If it were abject failure I don't think we'd exist to have this discussion because they established and fostered environments of reason & law. I think America has some degree of consensus going on about noble character traits of human beings or the generic notion of common decency. That transcends the letter of the law and falls more into the realm of the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law is a form of religion too. Can atheists recognize this, or is it too relegated as a figment of mass hallucination?
Sorry to be so verbose, but... The conflict is imaginary. """
So are gods.... Just because you need something doesn't make it true
""""I'm not going that far, but it's my understanding that Atheists are convinced based on pure logic. So live that out and know that the common language we would share is logic and reason"""
NO! Atheist use logic and reason, weak people who make up stuff to make themselves feel better do NOT use logic and reason.
. The common tie that binds us by law is the constitution. I do not see that Atheists have lost all compass in life, their moral sensibilities do not appear to have vanished into thin air, and they aren't jumping off bridges.
That's inconsistent with my experience. I opened my eyes and have no fear of my maker, but understand that some are not psychologically strong enough to deal with that degree of confrontation. This is the pragmatic function of clergy and it's not unique to Christianity. I'm older now but I can say in hindsight that trying to wrap my head around French Existentialism @ 19yrs old was so difficult for me that my reaction to it was anxiety attacks. I had to put it down and go back to it again down the road. My mind was not ready and the harder I'd try to buckle down in that course work the more impossible it became for me to focus on anything. Speaking of star trek- matter and anti matter in the wrong vessel go ka-blewy.
It's a very frightening thing for the human mind to confront itself, and it's own mortality. Do you believe that all human beings equally have the capacity to live up to that intellectual challenge, and if so, what is the appropriate age for them to confront mortality? The course of treatment for depression is not a copy of Nietzsche and atheists are not immune from PTSD. Based on my anecdotal personal experiences & observations I believe Atheists are in many ways at a disadvantage coping with the horrors of the world. """
GEE! THAT'S not a biased, short-sighted view!:roll eyes: Only wishful thinking on your part....I cope just fine...and I don't need the crutch of religion....as really really WEAK people do.
"""Please see a film called "Little Man Tate" if you don't understand what I'm getting at because it speaks to the heart of the matter. The dynamics of civilization and intellectual pursuit can and do run roughshod over human beings disrupting, and at times hobbling, the normal course of growth and development. This is the thing social conservatives find it very hard to articulate to liberally bent people but if you speak to each other in terms of each being a parent with a duty, you're bound to find mutually respectful solutions.
You can be secure enough in yourselves to refrain from even entertaining the notion of abolishing religion. I do know how you feel about those who are pushy about it and orientating themselves as master marketeers of God. I've had 5 knocks to my door trying to convert me to another faith, and yes, it is offensive to me. It's a nuisance liter on the train and on washing machines in the laundromats having these sensationalist tracts making a joke of Christianity. Using cartoon format to attract child like minds in and of itself is offensive to me because there is nothing about the teachings of Jesus that means to sneak in the back door or trick people. I strongly disagree. What more can I do than refuse to participate or refuse to lend credence?
I'm unclear why the existence of the actual religious is disturbing to you or anyone. Why should any one feel compelled to hide their identity? It shouldn't matter who the majority is, we should just be respectful of one another's rights uniformly. Amish found the constitutional manifestation of free society so offensive to their sensibilities undermining the rearing of their children that they chose to hole up in small communities and live their life free of material trappings of 'the english' <spits on the ground>. They're respected in their right to do so. Atheists are also free to do so if the majority really is that horribly disruptive or useless to you, and so are other denominations that mean to assert a theocratic society.
The vast majority of most religious in this country prefer to live a secular life balanced with religious tradition. They are in effect abiding a whole other set of rules in addition to US law. Earnest religious- their lives are harder for them to live out than it is for you to live yours. Please respect that they have voluntarily taken on that extra duty, they don't begrudge you that you've got it easier, and they do not intend others to pay for their choices. They should not be harassed for their religious practices. Name a religious practice that brings you harm and I'll consider your points in earnest. As for law we all abide- freedom to choose is ideal, but if you author policy that mandates they must go against their teachings, I must vehemently object. Forcing Jews or Atheist vegans to eat pork, is patently wrong and we don't have to be Jewish or vegan to defend them. We only have to be American.
When you say that I hear 2 children bickering in the backseat of the car. If we turn this around and you're the parent, how do you deal with harborlady and atheist 'X' smacking each other and whining ad infinitum?
Religious should be better and more often than not they actually are. Media has an OCD fixation with bad news (threats, fear, scandal, gossip, envy, materialism etc) and ignores good news because it's not profitable. That's a little sick, don't you think? My WV grandmother was an exceptionally pious woman and there is no mention of her life in any media outlet people lean on for information. There is no mention of her in history books of high regard, not worthy of cosmo magazine or the national enquirer. She satisfied herself that she was etched in my heart and in all the lives she deeply touched in a modest way. There are thousands upon thousands of salt of the earth Americans who will never see a spotlight. They hold up civilization in ways people living out abstract existence to the hilt are blinded. I think Mike Rowe does a very good job with his show Dirty Jobs. It's a huge mistake to take these people for granted. You might hear a train in the distance at night and perhaps get annoyed by the noise, but I hear human beings carrying the world for us all while we sleep. I can rest easy knowing someone competent is at the helm, or driving the bus, is on duty in the military, hospital etc. It may be a heavy responsibility or the most mundane of chores sweeping our streets. I am grateful. Christian work ethics made all this possible.
So are atheists better than the KKK? Do you understand the meaning of that statement? That organization, like AOG, like Taliban... they intend to annihilate a group of people in servicing an ideology of supremacy. It's one thing to be able to reject a lifestyle for ourselves in personal choices but another thing entirely to plot genocide. The moment hate speech organizes itself with a mission statement of annihilation they delete the operating system they mean to stand upon. Making sweeping statements that you mean to abolish religion is the same as annihilation. It's not physically possible for anyone to remove Catholicism from my bones without killing me, and most practicing religious will express similar sentiments. Our very identities are intertwined with religion. Hitler didn't have the power to remove Jew out of Jews.
If I were to animate myself within America to annihilate Protestants, to have Catholicism be the supreme rule of the land, I would cease to be Christian or American and this would no longer be America. Anarchists meaning to reform America is antithetical to their stated philosophy- if opposed to civilization of any sort how credible is it for them to be animated hijacking a train? Absolute freedom would be a nomadic existence in national forest seeing how long you can last on squirrel meat and stock trout. Leaning on civilization for any slight crumb of technology negates the philosophy of anarchy entirely. An anarchist textbook is ironic beyond belief because they are railing against the very language, the very paper, they are writing upon and demanding an audience of all who are integral parts of the civilization. Similarly, Atheists meaning to be rid of religion when so much of our civilization gave it basis to exist is more than a little intolerant. It's another brand of domination.
One way or another, there will always be a majority of one group or another. It's not as if we can level all playing fields to make blacks feel themselves less of a minority status by spray painting whites another color because really that's a humiliation of both if you think about it. Each just need to be what they are. Someday latinos may be the majority in America. Someday Atheists may be the majority. The thing of it is, America will cease to exist the day whomever is the majority means to dictate. The fact that Atheists, anarchists, Amish, Muslims, Mormons, hippies and a whole host of others all exist is testament that Christian majority has gone very far out of it's way to defend and protect the right for all to exist. They deserve credit for that effort, and respect is a 2 way street.
Same vein of thinking it took men of high principles to recognize that it was morally wrong for women to be prohibited from voting & treated as chattel. Women owe a debt of gratitude to those high principled men by living out that high principle defending the rights of all to vote, which includes men. Women are the factual majority of this nation and have not abused that potential by seizing the opportunity to revise the constitution to read "We the Women". I am obliged to defend my father, my son, and my brother equally as I defend my mother, daughter, and sister.
I've met good folks from every walk of life, race, creed, orientation... my definition of good is very different from those who tend to behave clannish and cling to like minded affinity. If religion doesn't exist in your inner world, why is walking past a church more or less significant than walking past a tree or a parked car?
It's portrayed as an imaginary thing based on offhand dismissal treatment. You are in effect fanning the flames for religious zealotry in your disrespectful treatment and departure from logic. If you're confident that you're right what have you got to fear by simply reading the bible and understanding my reference? The book is right here in my hands and it's as if Atheists are insisting it's a figment of my imagination. I'm sorry, I can't help you. Have a nice day (and vortex of nothingness bless you?). See how hard it is to just speak to one another politely?
Morality as a subject is not limited to religious, but it is the religious traditions that have made it lifetime work to uphold morality in civilization. If they stumbled along the way or struggled hard to uphold it, does that constitute abject failure? If it were abject failure I don't think we'd exist to have this discussion because they established and fostered environments of reason & law. I think America has some degree of consensus going on about noble character traits of human beings or the generic notion of common decency. That transcends the letter of the law and falls more into the realm of the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law is a form of religion too. Can atheists recognize this, or is it too relegated as a figment of mass hallucination?
Mass hallucination=Religion=mass halucination for the weak..
There was no question...just incoherence and silliness..
Silliness always the card to pull, when your Science over God can't prevail. What is so silly about Science not being able to duplicate dirt?? You don't need to answer back, unless, your a Scientist. Your answer, after all......... would only be silly!!!
Last edited by wildflower82; 12-07-2010 at 11:05 AM..
Atheists believe in many things. Gods just aren't one of them.
George Soros is an Atheist, do Atheist believe his One World Order proposition? He seems to be the speaker for Atheist these days.
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The percentage of atheists that hate is exactly at .000001221% of all nonbelievers
Why hasn't Science tried to duplicate dirt? Have you noticed it's not talked about, and when some scientist can make a claim God doesn't exist, they do.
Sorry to be so verbose, but... The conflict is imaginary.
