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Old 12-01-2010, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,864 posts, read 4,967,610 times
Reputation: 4207

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
Google the cosmological argument.

The TAG argument (Transcendental Argument for the existence of God) is another good one that I have yet to see countered effectively.




A man did walk across the water and you won't believe. I doubt you'd believe it if you saw it. sorry. I just think you'd say he was a good illusionist.

Honestly...the cosmological argument is adequate proof--we have an effect (the universe)...God is the cause. Until you can explain how the universe came from nothing, I'll call you irrational. The only logical argument is God.
No what's illogical is making the jump that because we don't know how the universe came into existence godunit. Occam's Razor demands the simplest answer, I'm sorry "God" is not the simplest answer because the existence of a god opens up a thousand questions and complexities. Also sir, I'm not so much interested in you proving "god," what I want you to prove is the "God of the Bible." Because even if a god exists that no more makes your religion's extraordinary claims any more true. I want "proof after proof" of Christianity. Okay ready set go!

 
Old 12-01-2010, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,864 posts, read 4,967,610 times
Reputation: 4207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
Nope. God is eternal. He exists outside of space/time. It's common logic...whatever created the universe (and time) has to exist outside of it. Of course, logic isn't necessarily a strong suit of the neo-atheist crowd.
Oh yeah that's perfectly logical except for the whole premise of god is entirely illogical. Of course, logic isn't necessarily a strong suit of the Christian crowd.
 
Old 12-01-2010, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,864 posts, read 4,967,610 times
Reputation: 4207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
If they are not near death, then it's not an NDE (near death experience). Some do have an OBE (out of body experience), maybe you are referring to that. In either case, 5-year olds have said things which they could not have known.



And you would know the difference between a 5-year-olds typical imagination and and actual experience.



That's true. And having an open mind includes the possibility and even probability of an afterlife. No afterlife would mean no reunion with family and friends and I can't think of anything worse than an eternity of being alone and/or not even existing.
Therein lies your true reasons for believing in an afterlife. You WANT to because the thought of nothingness scares you. So you read into everything you perceive as "evidence."
 
Old 12-01-2010, 07:30 AM
 
6,484 posts, read 6,605,651 times
Reputation: 1275
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthGAbound12 View Post
Oh yeah that's perfectly logical except for the whole premise of god is entirely illogical. Of course, logic isn't necessarily a strong suit of the Christian crowd.
wow, that's clever.

Tell me how the universe got here and we'll talk. It's obvious you either don't care to or are unable to have that discussion.
 
Old 12-01-2010, 07:39 AM
 
6,034 posts, read 10,664,043 times
Reputation: 3989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
wow, that's clever.

Tell me how the universe got here and we'll talk. It's obvious you either don't care to or are unable to have that discussion.
I'd suggest a little education. Try reading Stephen Hawking's 'The Grand Design' and you'll see that a deity, ANY deity, is not necessary for the universe to come into existence. But of course, sheeple are afraid of education.
 
Old 12-01-2010, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,893 posts, read 16,049,604 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
Splitting hairs, I see.
Not at all. Simply replacing a false assertion with a true one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound
Why would they say there might be a God while declaring "with absolute certainty that they do not believe in a God."
Because it is a true statement.
 
Old 12-01-2010, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,864 posts, read 4,967,610 times
Reputation: 4207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
wow, that's clever.

Tell me how the universe got here and we'll talk. It's obvious you either don't care to or are unable to have that discussion.
Quote:
The universe of 100 years ago was simple: eternal, unchanging, consisting of a single galaxy, containing a few million visible stars. The picture today is more complete and much richer. The cosmos began 13.7 billion years ago with the big bang. A fraction of a second after the beginning, the universe was a hot, formless soup of the most elementary particles, quarks and leptons. As it expanded and cooled, layer on layer of structure developed: neutrons and protons, atomic nuclei, atoms, stars, galaxies, clusters of galaxies, and finally superclusters. The observable part of the universe is now inhabited by 100 billion galaxies, each containing 100 billion stars and probably a similar number of planets. Galaxies themselves are held together by the gravity of the mysterious dark matter. The universe continues to expand and indeed does so at an accelerating pace, driven by dark energy, an even more mysterious form of energy whose gravitational force repels rather than attracts.
The Origin of the Universe: Scientific American

Origin of the Universe

Big Bang Theory

Why don't you read some of that and educate yourself? I'm sorry but "goddunit" is how people explained things a thousand years ago. We no longer live in the Dark Ages. Our world is lit by reason not darkened by ignorance and faith.

You sit here and demand proof, well there's plenty of evidence for my beliefs. I have yet to see you offer one cohesive bit of "evidence" for Christianity. Give me one. Don't come at me with the "Cosmological Argument" because that proves NOTHING. Not a damn thing. Even if it proved "god" it could just be a Deistic god. No sir, you making the positive claim "there is a god and he's the god of the bible," are stuck with the tremendous burden of proof. So please good sir, lets hear some of this "proof upon proof, evidence upon evidence." I'm waiting.
 
Old 12-01-2010, 08:05 AM
 
1,786 posts, read 3,455,009 times
Reputation: 3099
Listen folks, this thread seems to have gone in the direction of "Is there a God or isn't there" at which point I believe it would be better placed in the Religion Forum of C-D.

The OP, a poster from the NorthEast, was shocked to see the billboard in question placed at the Lincoln Tunnel - connecting NY and NJ. The easy answer, offensive as he found the ad to be, is under 1st Amendment rights, it can be legally placed there.

That of course leads to "Why do the American Atheists WANT to place it there? The only correct answer, in my opinion, is to create controversary. Mission accomplished. Does it really do anything for their cause? Not really to any of the NY/NJ people who see it. I've seen the comments on this board about the billboards dotting the South calling for hellfire on non-belivers. I find those offensive as well. But the fact remains that NY/NJ is not exactly the "gateway to the South". So this billboard could not be in retaliation, rationally, for any of those hellfire billboards. Why didn't the American Atheists place this billboard in Atlanta, GA or Austin, TX? Cowardly?

I don't see strength in any organization that needs to erect a billboard making a mockery of one religion to gain support for its own. It reeks of childishness.

So to bring the topic back to what the OP intended, I do find the billboard offensive and certainly geographically misplaced.
 
Old 12-01-2010, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,893 posts, read 16,049,604 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
And that's why they are called "OBE."
No. They are called "OBE" because people are sometimes incapable of distinguishing between sleep and waking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
They don't all make up things. For instance, the 5-year-old I referred to a few pages back.
5-year-olds constantly make things up. Yes... and that includes the one you referred to a few pages back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
It's really quite simple... if they say something they could not possibly no nothing about, like maybe a relative who was in jail 50 years before he was born, it's very easy to tell.
No... not if all you have to go on is an anecdote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
Depressing when you think about it, isn't it?
And belief in an afterlife is the functional equivalent of Prozac.
 
Old 12-01-2010, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,893 posts, read 16,049,604 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
Tell me how the universe got here and we'll talk.
The universe didn't "get here." The universe was always here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist
It's obvious you either don't care to or are unable to have that discussion.
Every time we start having that discussion you run away.
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