What is US incarceration rate is so high? (Iraq, Obama, crime rate)

[kevinm]

Originally Posted by Old Gringo

Back in the 80s, neocons devised a way for corporations to make a profit on taxpayer dollars by allowing privatized prisons. In the meantime, many former misdemeanors have been reclassified as felonies with long prison sentences. Also, mandatory sentencing was a real catch phrase in the 80s, bringing with it more incarceration for victimless crimes.

The result?

America now has the highest prison population on earth.

Ask yourselves, do you think we're a safer, less violent society now because of this?

Back in the dark ages when I was in HS, I recall a social studies teacher making a big point in class that "America is not a nation of prisoners, like Russia and China are."

Oh, yeah?

We would be safer if prisoners never got out and had to do hard labor with zero comforts. No one would want to go to jail.

[JazzyTallGuy]

Originally Posted by malamute

We're not winning the War on Poverty - poverty rates are increasing, we're spending more on poverty than ever so why don't we hear liberals saying we should end that one?

We'll never win the War on Poverty.

Actually significant progress had been made in decreasing poverty in this country in the last 50 years BUT you have to understand the history.

The Census Bureau has been keeping poverty level statistics since 1959.

In 1959 there were 176.577 million people in this country and 39.49 million or American or 22.4% lived below the poverty level. In 2009 there were 303.820 million people in this country and 43.569 lived below the poverty level.

In other words the population increased by 72.06% in the last 50 years yet the number of American before the poverty rate only increased by 10.33%. If NOTHING had been done as you assert then over 66 million would have been living below the poverty number as of 2009.

Also if you look back on a historical basis from 1959 to 1973 the poverty rate in this country went from 22.4% to 11.3%. It was during this time that the United States Government focused more time, money and effort to eliminate poverty in America than any period in our nation’s history. The only other year that the poverty rate reached 11.3% was in 2000. That was last year of the Clinton Administration.

Also different presidential administrations have different results in terms of reducing poverty. Since records have been kept for presidential administration with two terms the Kennedy-Johnson Administration during 1961 to 1968 did the best job of reducing poverty. The Bush 43 Administration has done the worst job of reducing poverty.


Bush 43
Americans Below The Poverty Level
2001 - 32.907 million 2008 - 39.829 million - increase 21.04%

Overall Population Growth
2001 - 281.475 million 2008 - 301.041 million - increase 6.95%

During the Bush 43 Administration poverty INCREASED three times faster than rate of population growth.

Clinton
Americans Below The Poverty Level
1993 - 39.265 million 2000 - 31.581 million - decrease 19.57%

Overall Population Growth
1993 - 259.278 million 2000 - 278.944 million - increase 7.58%

During the Clinton Administration poverty DECREASED 2.5 faster than the population grew.

Reagan
Americans Below The Poverty Level
1981 - 31.822 million 1988 - 31.745 million - increase 0.24%

Overall Population Growth
1981 - 227.157 million 1988 - 243.53 million - increase 7.21%
During the Reagan Administration poverty was relatively flat compared to population growth.



Nixon-Ford
Americans Below The Poverty Level
1969 - 24.147 million 1976 - 24.975 million - increase 3.43%

Overall Population Growth
1969 - 199.517 million 1976 - 212.303 million - increase 6.41%

During the Nixon - Ford Administrations poverty INCREASED about half as fast as the population grew.


Kennedy-Johnson
Americans Below The Poverty Level
1961 - 39.628 million 1968 - 25.389 million decrease 35.93%

Overalll Population Growth
1961 - 181.277 million 1968 - 197.628 million increase 9.02%

During the Kennedy-Johnson Administration poverty DECREASED about four times faster than the population grew.

[Camlon]

Originally Posted by Grim Reader

Norway has a different prison system:

Norway's Halden Fengsel Prison: Humane Rehab for Inmates - TIME

And also it cost about 150K dollars per inmate to keep them there. That's nearly 4 times as much as US. If your plan is to kick 3/4 of the criminals on the street and adopt the Norwegian crime system, crime rates will go out of control. Because criminals can go free and get no consequences if they end up in prison or if they don't. The reason Norway can afford it, is because crime rate in Norway was historically low and oil.

However, look at Sweden who doesn't have oil, but have the same prison system. They are not doing well at all. Crime rates are increasing rapidly, for instance the rape rate has increased six-fold the last 30 years and is twice as high as the US. In the US the rape rate has decreased.

Originally Posted by Old Gringo

Back in the 80s, neocons devised a way for corporations to make a profit on taxpayer dollars by allowing privatized prisons. In the meantime, many former misdemeanors have been reclassified as felonies with long prison sentences. Also, mandatory sentencing was a real catch phrase in the 80s, bringing with it more incarceration for victimless crimes.

The result?

America now has the highest prison population on earth.

Ask yourselves, do you think we're a safer, less violent society now because of this?

Back in the dark ages when I was in HS, I recall a social studies teacher making a big point in class that "America is not a nation of prisoners, like Russia and China are."

Oh, yeah?

Yes, I think US is a more safer and less violent society because of this. Being tough on crime helped a lot and crime rates has been going down since the 80s. Back then crime rates were getting out of hand. Sometimes, you just need to get the criminals off the street. Sometimes, you can't rehabilitate them. Especially if only a small minority get caught and most people never get caught.

If nothing was done in the 80s, I imagine the crime rates in the US would have kept rising like they did in Europe.

[JimMe]

Executing more miscreants would help reduce the prison population. Just a thought.

[henrjam]

Originally Posted by JimMe

Executing more miscreants would help reduce the prison population. Just a thought.

I would not call that a " thought "

[tinman01]

Originally Posted by Memphis1979

Just what we need, tent cities in the middle of winter in the coldest areas of the country.

Sheriff Joe isn't my sheriff, but his methods are stupid and silly. Pink underwear? really? Who cares.

Have you ever been to jail? Its no pick nick. Sleeping on a thin mat on a concrete floor with folks you don't want to be around sleeping right next to you, drinking cheap kool aid out of a little cup through a hole and the worst food you'll ever eat in your life.

I'm not saying its not deserved, I'm just saying that its not a place people generally want to be either.

If you think that some people have it better in prison or jail, perhaps you should question what got them in a place where jail was a better option for them in the first place?

No I have never been jailed. I have been on tours of state prisons. My cousin is a CO.
Yes I do believe that inmates have it pretty sweet considering the fact that they are the scum of the human race.
Sheriff joe feeds his inmates balogna sandwhiches. He has chain gangs and yes pink clothes.
Also no airconditioning. I honestly don't believe the scum of the human race deserves any creature comforts above what we might give a rabid dog. In fact we should treat them with about as much trust as we would give a rabid dog.

[tinman01]

Originally Posted by henrjam

I would not call that a " thought "

Are you saying that it wouldn't lower the prison population?

[sindey]

There are many prisoners that I would like 'kicked out' of prison only to be replaced with some of the crooked politicians we have.......Seem there are an entirely different set of 'rules' for them & the uber rich.

[Memphis1979]

Originally Posted by Guamanians

I'm talking about arresting drug dealers in the US. Again, thats why I said that we need to crack down on illegal immigration as well.
I do know how the law of supply and demand work. But, you fail to address the buyers risk vs reward.
If you can't admit that drugs are a serious problem in our society then you are blind. I'm not talking about the weekend stoners... I'm talking about the hard stuff!

Drugs are a serious problem for the individual. I don't care what society does, as long as they leave me alone, and let me do what I want, without hurting anyone else.

You're talking about arresting anyone who has drugs on them, classified as "a drug dealer". I'm not a dealer, but I have enough in my house to be classified as one.

What risk is there? Pot has less health risks than alcohol, doesn't cause damage to the body, its even losing its link to cancer.

Prohibiting people from taking a substance in their body has never worked, and will never work. Regulate, legalize, or at the very least decriminalize.

I've long said that we shouldn't arrest anyone for possession of anything, but the sell of the substance should be made illegal. That way if I want to grow my own, or make my own, its my business, no one elses.

[Darkatt]

Originally Posted by Grim Reader

If this is true, we would expect countries with harsher prisons to have less crime (murder), and countries with better conditions in prisons to have more.

Does this fit reality?

The answer is yes.

In those countries who deal with criminal much harsher than we, the # of crimes committed tends to be lower.

Japan comes to mind.