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Old 11-30-2010, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
12,623 posts, read 13,929,460 times
Reputation: 5895

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I largely concur with much of this blog. But it was not my intention to say that Appomattox settled the question of secession. The Civil War settled the question. Millions of men who lost their lives settled the question. Their blood is the glue that holds this country together. The commitment of those men fighting for their ideals didn't just divide our country, it united our country as well. They forged us into a single nation.

I don't agree. I have never felt that the south was a willing partner in this nation. From my time there, I feel that they despise and hate the Fed Govt to this very day. That is what I find so conflicted about the place. And why maybe it would be better for them to go a ahead and start the legal means for getting out.
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
12,623 posts, read 13,929,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wellwater View Post
Well if we were so traitorous would we? And btw the industrial might of the north was one of the causes of "the War".

Which war? I seriously hope you don't mean WWII.
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Southeast
4,301 posts, read 7,033,943 times
Reputation: 1464
Secession was retroactively declared illegal in 1869, and the Supreme Court declared that the South never seceded to begin with.

See Texas v. White - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:07 PM
 
6,034 posts, read 10,683,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
NYT: South celebrates Civil War, without slaves - U.S. news - The New York Times - msnbc.com

The war has been re-branded as celebrations come up to drastically play down the role of slavery, and the fact it even happened. Instead many are making it all about "states rights" while the good ol' southern boys were defending their homes from the warring North.

Screw that one of the tantamount reasons to secession was to keep human beings as property I guess.
I'm not agreeing with the version of the CW in the link, however...the CW wasn't really about freeing the slaves, when you come right down to it. Sad fact, but factual nonetheless.
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:15 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,301,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Interesting scenario. I guess eventually the South would have gotten rid of slavery anyway, maybe a couple of decades later.
The fact Southerners did everything possible to politically, socially and economically disenfranchise former slaves and their children, their grandchildren, their great grand children and in some cases their great-great grandchildren leads me to believe Southerners would have continued slavery well into the 20th century.

Southerners saw slavery as more than an economic system they considered part of their way of life. That's why it took federal troops at times to enforce school desegregation and the Civl Rights Act in the South and this was 100 years after the Civil War began.

The fact people would still want to celebrate the Civil War and believe so much in “Southern Heritage†and the “Southern Way of Life†shows how deeply people are still emotionally invested in this way of living.
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:36 PM
 
8,630 posts, read 9,137,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
Point to me where in the US Constitution there is a right to secession. And don't pull out the 10th Amendment crap. Do you seriously think the founders would have left secession that ambiguous. There is no LEGAL right to secession in the Constitution.

People have a natural right to rebellion and revolution. And guess what, the moral justification may be there as in the American Revolution. But not a rebellion to maintain slavery. Sorry.
Stop reading propaganda and open your mind. Its what led up to the US Constititution. Don't be so gullible to think our founding fathers wished to place the States into a forced union. It was quite the oposite and for obvious reasons. Any American can see what the Fed has become at the expense on the States.
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
12,623 posts, read 13,929,460 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmking View Post
Stop reading propaganda and open your mind. Its what led up to the US Constititution. Don't be so gullible to think our founding fathers wished to place the States into a forced union. It was quite the oposite.

And I'm the one reading propaganda.
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:38 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,108,083 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
NYT: South celebrates Civil War, without slaves - U.S. news - The New York Times - msnbc.com

The war has been re-branded as celebrations come up to drastically play down the role of slavery, and the fact it even happened. Instead many are making it all about "states rights" while the good ol' southern boys were defending their homes from the warring North.

Screw that one of the tantamount reasons to secession was to keep human beings as property I guess.
Anotherwords, they are fixing the misconception that it was about slavery
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:42 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,301,747 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
How many were civilians killed by Union forces I wonder???

Oops,we try not to mention the rape and plunder and murders by the liberating Union forces....
Kinda like the rape and abuse that in some cases included murder slaveowners inflicted on slaves.

Gotcha!
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:46 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,108,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
Point to me where in the US Constitution there is a right to secession. And don't pull out the 10th Amendment crap. Do you seriously think the founders would have left secession that ambiguous. There is no LEGAL right to secession in the Constitution.

People have a natural right to rebellion and revolution. And guess what, the moral justification may be there as in the American Revolution. But not a rebellion to maintain slavery. Sorry.
The Supreme Court ruled in 1869 that states could not succeed from the union, but thats because 8 states in 1861 succeeded which led to the Civil War..

That being said, if a state would succeed from the union, they would no longer be covered under the US Constitution, and any Supreme Court ruling would no longer apply to them.. The Supreme Court only covers US jurisdiction, and since nothing in the Constitution limits a secession, it might stand if ever re-visited by the Supreme Court. Remember, the Constitution is a list of things the federal government CANT do, not what it can, and there is nothing in the Constitution authorizing the federal government to force a state to stay..

The original court ruling against secession was because Texas wanted to secede, but then asked that the US Govt guarantee bonds, which could only happen if they didn't secede.. They argued against themself which most likely wouldnt happen again since the us govt doesnt guarantee state bonds.
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