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Old 01-13-2011, 04:09 PM
 
9,727 posts, read 9,707,977 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
NYT: South celebrates Civil War, without slaves - U.S. news - The New York Times - msnbc.com

The war has been re-branded as celebrations come up to drastically play down the role of slavery, and the fact it even happened. Instead many are making it all about "states rights" while the good ol' southern boys were defending their homes from the warring North.

Screw that one of the tantamount reasons to secession was to keep human beings as property I guess.

Nazi Germany was a great place to live except for the deportations and exterminations if you were German.
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:12 PM
 
72,874 posts, read 62,362,868 times
Reputation: 21825
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinm View Post
Nazi Germany was a great place to live except for the deportations and exterminations if you were German.

My view on it is this. If one of us isn't free, then none of us are. That is why I am glad the South lost the war. This is why it was good for Germany to surrender in WWII.
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,578,960 times
Reputation: 11083
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Their will... fascinating.

TKramer, king and potentate of all that is around him. I only do what I please... sounds like a 2 year old's fantasy.

Try it, you may find you can't get enough of it.
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,578,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
The laws have oppressed African-Americans since day one. Slavery as an institution in this nation has oppressed African-Americans by denying them the wealth that Whites would have more freedom to gain. It denied African-Americans treatment as human beings by classifying them as property. The Southern states were staunch in trying to keep this institution. That is why the states wanted to secede.

The law was very oppressive after that in many states, dictating to African-Americans. That is why the Civil Rights movement came into fruition. It was to fight those laws. The laws have been oppressive to African-Americans for ages, and for the most part, African-Americans had no legal representation to back them up. That was the difference between being White and being Black. The law couldn't stop a White person from doing what he or she wanted back in the old days because the average White person had more legal representation and support from the local community to back that White person up. A Black person usually had no such thing. That is the difference

What is it about wealth that makes it desirable to you? I have no interest in it, myself.

There are still things that the "law" would try to keep me from doing. That doesn't mean that I stop doing it.
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:28 PM
 
72,874 posts, read 62,362,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
What is it about wealth that makes it desirable to you? I have no interest in it, myself.

There are still things that the "law" would try to keep me from doing. That doesn't mean that I stop doing it.
Well, the wealth I am talking about is a nice house, some money in the bank, some money set aside for retirement, some set aside for college education. That is what slavery denied African-Americans when it comes to wealth. Those are things I want to have. I am in college and I graduate in December. I voted in the 2006 and 2010 gubernatorial elections. I voted in the 2004 and 2008 presidential elections. In the 1920's, Blacks were being prevented from doing those things. Slavery prevented Blacks from voting or having the same things White people could have. That is what I am talking about. I am talking specifically about those things. I am not talking about some things you might do in private.
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:48 PM
 
32,009 posts, read 36,668,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
No, interference with, among other things, commerce. Their ability to sell the things they produced.
That's nonsense, and a dangerous attempt to rewrite history.

The Southern slave states formally declared -- in crystal clear language and in their words, so that there could be no mistake about it -- that their reason for secession was so that they could continue to practice African slavery without interference from the Northern non-slave states.

The original documents are available and anyone can read them.

South Carolina Declaration of Secession

Mississippi Declaration of Secession

Georgia Declaration of Secession

Texas Declaration of Secession


There are many valid debates and discussions about the Civil War, but any attempt to deny this basic reality is shameful.
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Old 01-13-2011, 05:04 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,285,354 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
That's nonsense, and a dangerous attempt to rewrite history.

The Southern slave states formally declared -- in crystal clear language and in their words, so that there could be no mistake about it -- that their reason for secession was so that they could continue to practice African slavery without interference from the Northern non-slave states.

The original documents are available and anyone can read them.

South Carolina Declaration of Secession

Mississippi Declaration of Secession

Georgia Declaration of Secession

Texas Declaration of Secession


There are many valid debates and discussions about the Civil War, but any attempt to deny this basic reality is shameful.

The links have been posted earlier in this thread. TKramar is in deep denial.
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Old 01-13-2011, 06:42 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,975,677 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Try it, you may find you can't get enough of it.
I did from age 2-6 then I grew up and by the time I became an adult fully realized that you don't get to do whatever you want if you want to live in a civilized society.
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Old 01-13-2011, 06:49 PM
 
72,874 posts, read 62,362,868 times
Reputation: 21825
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
I did from age 2-6 then I grew up and by the time I became an adult fully realized that you don't get to do whatever you want if you want to live in a civilized society.
That is true. However, what some people call a civilized society can vary. Some people thought that a slave-holding society was a "civilized" society because many people felt that African-Americans were "incapable" of living in American society and therefore "keeping them in line". Some people did actually think that way. I would argue that in order to have a peaceful, orderly society, EVERY citizen, regardless as race, ethnicity, color, or creed must be treated as a human being, be entitled to the same rights as everyone else, the same privileges, the same justice system, the same access to justice and treatment. This means there might be people who want to marginalize another ethnicity, but they can't do that because then it would disrupt a peaceful, orderly society.
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Old 01-13-2011, 06:52 PM
 
2,125 posts, read 1,936,779 times
Reputation: 1010
This is the level of absurdity when you should probably just stop arguing with someone. People are posting paragraphs of rebuttals to TKramer's position and he/she is responding with 2, maybe 3 sentences of empty rhetoric about self-reliance, with no real respect to the comments being posed to them. Give it up.
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