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Now we're back to the AMT. Apparently, you haven't learned any more about it than you knew earlier today, which was obviously very little.
Explain how if those who pay little to no tax now were required to pay more via a flat tax, that would not lower the tax bill for the middle and working class?
Seems to me that if the rich were required to pay the flat tax, more tax revenue would be collected from the rich than they now pay, which would lower everyone else's tax bill.
The rich are able to escape much of their taxes through write offs, however the flat tax amount would still be lower than the amount they are paying now. That amount would be higher than what the middle and working class are paying now.
I have asked you several times to state what exemptions, deductions and credits you would allow and what ones you wouldn't. I have also asked yo several times what the flat tax rate would be. You refuse to be able to answer these questions for no other reason than you know if you gave and answer and we did the math that you would be calling for tax increases to the working and middle class.
The rich are able to escape much of their taxes through write offs, however the flat tax amount would still be lower than the amount they are paying now. That amount would be higher than what the middle and working class are paying now.
I have asked you several times to state what exemptions, deductions and credits you would allow and what ones you wouldn't. I have also asked yo several times what the flat tax rate would be. You refuse to be able to answer these questions for no other reason than you know if you gave and answer and we did the math that you would be calling for tax increases to the working and middle class.
IMO: This statement is most likely true. I gather that Informed Consent comes from the school of thought, that everyone must pay some tax and the middle class should share more of the tax burden. No judgement on my part but what I perceive.
Not at all. My purpose in the discussion with Smash is to explore the Dem/liberal assertion that the rich pay little to no tax. Given that premise, it's impossible for the middle and working class to pay more federal income tax with a flat tax since the rich will be paying more than the alleged previous 'little to no tax' via the flat tax that would apply to everyone.
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I gather that Informed Consent comes from the school of thought, that everyone must pay some tax and the middle class should share more of the tax burden. No judgement on my part but what I perceive.
My position is that everyone should pay the same rate. Earn little; pay little. Earn more; pay more. Everyone has an equal stake in ensuring the federal government takes its fiduciary responsibility seriously.
Not at all. My purpose in the discussion with Smash is to explore the Dem/liberal assertion that the rich pay little to no tax. Given that premise, it's impossible for the middle and working class to pay more federal income tax with a flat tax since the rich will be paying more than the alleged previous 'little to no tax' via the flat tax that would apply to everyone.
My position is that everyone should pay the same rate. Earn little; pay little. Earn more; pay more. Everyone has an equal stake in ensuring the federal government takes its fiduciary responsibility seriously.
The actual assertion is the rich don't pay their fair share.
Anyway again why do you REFUSE to come up with what exemptions you would allow and not allow? Why do you REFUSE to give an answer to what that flat tax rate would be?
Well actually I know that reason. Because if you went through what deductions, exemptions and credits you would allow, the amounts, etc and what the flat tax rate would be, the math would show you would be causing increase in taxes on the working and middle class.
The actual assertion is the rich don't pay their fair share.
Based on what? The top 1% and top 5% of earners pay nearly twice their fair share of the federal income tax revenue when compared to their groups' share of the income.
I'll let you two have at it. I gave my layman's two cents on what I thought would be a "fair" tax reform and I'll let it go at that. I think the existing tax code is responsible for fostering discord among the various income groups and your spirited debate highlights that fact.
Based on what? The top 1% and top 5% of earners pay nearly twice their fair share of the federal income tax revenue when compared to their groups' share of the income.
The fact they are able to write off more of their income than the middle and working class. They can for example write off interest on mortgage payments for a multi million $$ home, luxury car payments, meals in a 5 star restaurant, etc.
The fact you can't even answer which one of these things you would take away or reduce if it were to go to a flat tax speaks volumes about your little "proposal".
I'll let you two have at it. I gave my layman's two cents on what I thought would be a "fair" tax reform and I'll let it go at that. I think the existing tax code is responsible for fostering discord among the various income groups and your spirited debate highlights that fact.
I tend to disagree with your proposal, and would like to see more solid numbers as what exactly the exemptions would be (though you did give a ball park) and what the flat tax rate would be so we could get a real discussion on facts and figures on how it would impact the middle class from a real $$$ point a view, but I do appreciate you actually giving some info and specifics rather than just yelling flat tax flat tax and going into no detail other than that.
The fact they are able to write off more of their income than the middle and working class. They can for example write off interest on mortgage payments for a multi million $$ home, luxury car payments, meals in a 5 star restaurant, etc.
Wow. You are woefully misinformed. Deductions are limited, and phase out as income increases. You cannot just deduct whatever you want. Don't forget that the AMT kicks in, anyway.
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The fact you can't even answer which one of these things you would take away or reduce if it were to go to a flat tax speaks volumes about your little "proposal".
I've already explained that given the Dem/liberal meme that the rich pay little to no taxes, a flat tax applied to the rich's income would greatly increase tax revenues so that not only would taxes on the working and middle class decrease, but no spending cuts would be necessary, either.
Wow. You are woefully misinformed. Deductions are limited, and phase out as income increases. You cannot just deduct whatever you want. Don't forget that the AMT kicks in, anyway.
If someone has an income of $1 million and they write off $950,000, they don't pay any AMT and have no phase out. They get to write off every last $$$. At least according to the Tax Foundation....
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Originally Posted by InformedConsent
I've already explained that given the Dem/liberal meme that the rich pay little to no taxes, a flat tax applied to the rich's income would greatly increase tax revenues so that not only would taxes on the working and middle class decrease, but no spending cuts would be necessary, either.
Again actually that meme is the rich don't pay their fair share.
Why don't you want to do the math on this? Why are you REFUSING to give any information on what that flat tax rate would be? Why are you REFUSING to give any information on what exemptions, deductions, credits, etc that you would allow? Is it because you don't want to see the outcome when we do the math?
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