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Oh...it only took till the second post for someone to go there
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist
Honestly? The koran is a book of crazy ramblings of a mad man. It's violent and orders its readers to do violent acts.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "Book of Civility, Book of Etiquette"? If you mean the etiquette a man should observe when he beats his wife or cuts the head off an infidel, I guess that would be accurate.
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
Just wanted to repost this in response to this line.
As far as "These were written for the ancient israelites" thing, I guess the 10 commandments, the fact that Jesus said that you should follow his fathers laws (meaning the laws of Moses), and countless other statements by Christians professing their following of the old testament law (such as homosexuality, which isn't mentioned in the new testament, I guess it was fine then).
You're picking and choosing what to follow. The same thing could be done with the Qu'ran, and usually are. Most Muslims don't follow the Qu'ran to the letter. Zealot Muslims want it to be followed to the letter, and will kill to do so. Zealot Christians want the same thing, and have killed and still kill for the same thing.
The real way to look at this is that zealots are bad in religion, period.
The commands you've quoted from the Bible were given to ancient Israel at a specific time. They are not only not followed--they were not intended to be followed by anyone but the ancient Israelites.
You can't say the same things regarding the violent commands in the koran.
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
NB4 'the Koran is a book of violence'
Oh...it only took till the second post for someone to go there
Because it's true. Sorry if you're unwilling to actually look at it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent
The bible has some definite problems to it as well. (e.g. evolution and dinosaurs.)
Could you point out the problems, please? I'm not aware of any problems.
The commands you've quoted from the Bible were given to ancient Israel at a specific time. They are not only not followed--they were not intended to be followed by anyone but the ancient Israelites.
You can't say the same things regarding the violent commands in the koran.
Cool, then the 10 commandments are bullcrap. Gotcha.
Everyone go out and commit adultery, Use the lords name however you see fit, and to hell with that sabbath day crap.
Because it's true. Sorry if you're unwilling to actually look at it.
I lived in an 'Islamic' country, Egypt, for two years. I've read (some of, not all) the Koran. I have, and have had Muslim friends and discussed Islam with them.
Could you point out the problems, please? I'm not aware of any problems.
I already did. Genesis is inconsistent with evolution and the Old Earth model of dinosaurs, both of which are the scientific consensus. That is a fact problem on par with saying "seed" originates in the chest.
I already did. Genesis is inconsistent with evolution and the Old Earth model of dinosaurs, both of which are the scientific consensus. That is a fact problem on par with saying "seed" originates in the chest.
Evolution is far from proven. The Old Earth model is also far from proven. 90% of the dating methods show a young earth. As for dinosaurs? What about them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
Cool, then the 10 commandments are bullcrap. Gotcha.
Everyone go out and commit adultery, Use the lords name however you see fit, and to hell with that sabbath day crap.
Actually, the 10 commandments were addressed in the Sermon on the Mount by Jesus. He said not only don't commit adultery, but if we look lustfully at someone else we commit adultery in our hearts. So now we're held to a higher standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
I lived in an 'Islamic' country, Egypt, for two years. I've read (some of, not all) the Koran. I have, and have had Muslim friends and discussed Islam with them.
I've looked at it.
Apparently you were friends with squishy muslims, not the ones that beat their wives and blow things up because they are devout.
I already did. Genesis is inconsistent with evolution and the Old Earth model of dinosaurs, both of which are the scientific consensus. That is a fact problem on par with saying "seed" originates in the chest.
Anaximenes, a pupil of Anaximander, thought that air was the element that imparted life, motion and thought . .
Actually, the 10 commandments were addressed in the Sermon on the Mount by Jesus. He said not only don't commit adultery, but if we look lustfully at someone else we commit adultery in our hearts. So now we're held to a higher standard.
Actually, you're wrong.
What did Jesus say?
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Matthew 5:17)
You need to understand Hebrew. Fulfill had multiple meanings. One of which was abolish, but the other more common meaning was to develop to its full potential.
Your assumption is that Jesus said
"Think not that I come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to abolish"
Now that doesn't make much sense now does it?
Instead what he was saying (if indeed he actually said this)
"Think not that I come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to develop to its full potential".
In this, he did not say you don't have to follow Mosaic law. Indeed Christ said on multiple occasions that you should follow "my fathers laws", which were and are Mosaic law.
So Jesus not only re-affirmed that his fathers law was the law of Moses, but that you should follow them. Its funny that modern Christians put so much faith in a book that was translated by Englishmen who knew little of latin, let alone Hebrew.
Next? (BTW, I studied religion as a minor )
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