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Old 12-09-2010, 06:26 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,738,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead View Post
The Bible is more civil than the Koran because of the New Testament.

Fundamentalist Christians are the Orthodox Jews of the Old Testament, and the ugly people of the Koran.
Corrected that for you, because even Jews have splintered in much the same was Christendom and Islam has. Whomever Hitler had a beef with, it wasn't Jews as I know them to be, or Catholics, or Poles, or... well, he had a problem with everyone, now didn't he? He forgot the problem he had with himself.
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Old 12-09-2010, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,869 posts, read 24,308,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
The Bible as history book...
The Biblical writer was a mortal male limited in his ability to communicate, and also to comprehend fully what it was he was witnessing. This is not actually at odds with science, I agree, but to presume so much infallibility to witnesses in Biblical times comes the danger of worshiping an apostle, or worshiping Jesus alone, where the over arching Godhead is displaced by myopia. Our ability as humans is limited in ability to perceive, comprehend, and communicate and as such should humble us all equally if we are earnest in practice.

Jesus did not come as a mason to etch tablets of thou shalt. He was a carpenter. His other career was 'a fisher of men'. Why?
You know, I have no problem with this.

The bible has its good parts, so does the Qu'ran for that matter.

When you READ the book that people claim to be the indisputable word of God, you'll understand that it was a book written by many men, over thousands of years, and were partly inspired by something greater than themselves.

Other parts of it were written with nothing more than men with God complexes who felt they were "higher than thou".

Never fails to amaze me the number of "Christians" that haven't read the bible cover to cover, understand its background, and understand the people who wrote the books that were accepted into its cannon.
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Old 12-09-2010, 07:30 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,153,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Diluted or rid of chaff? The editorial process has the potential to rid the wheat and elevate the chaff.


I acknowledge your criticism as having some validity in it's observation, but I disagree with your conclusion. If you can view this splintering of Christendom as the difference in what one apostle saw from another, they would be better served as separate groups studying the depth of the meaning, living it out themselves as examples, then return to one another with independent conclusions that get shared in the larger Christian community. Something of a Christian Supreme court of Biblical interpretation.
I also believe the reasoning behind why each has chosen separate path needs to be looked upon not as disloyalty, but an act of preserving an aspect of scripture they believe has been neglected. I cannot live a life of Amish but I can see the example they uphold as noble. Christians should learn more from one another but when orientated as salesmen defending territories and market share, it becomes destructive/ antithetical to the core teachings. The rock of the church, Peter's instructions, have been given wild license. That's how Santeria is birthed, then claim Christendom is under attack by the very thing forced upon the masses.



The only way I could see around all this is to distance myself from organized religion entirely and go deeper into the bible itself.
I stand accused with ready made excuse that I'm a pick and choose Catholic, when it's precisely the thing I've been burdened with in the pews. This upside down world we're living in where criminals are the first to accuse others of what they themselves are doing needs air and light once and for all. How can I forgive them when the crime continues?

The burdens put upon clergy to have answers for all things at all times is in effect demanding they be Jesus for us. Learned scholars are to be admired but not fill in the blanks of unanswered inquiry. It's not a crime to say you don't know, unless of course you're wearing a Papal hat and boxed yourself into a corner by papal decrees. They've done this to themselves. Let the unanswered questions send them back to their studies or the teachings themselves will get lost in translation if not for the flock balancing things out doing their own homework.

Being too reliant on authority as expert harms Christianity IMO. The authoritarian habit sells this notion, and with noblest intents to serve, engage in misleading or offering up false mission statements. This includes but is not limited to Holy wars and wars on poverty decorating lepers. We are very far from teaching a man to fish, and the whole of womankind being an afterthought in the eyes of 12 apostles, none seem to comprehend that teaching a woman to fish is applicable to the majority of the planet. Talk about pick and choose!

I'm Catholic no matter where I go and no matter if I should ever be excommunicated. I am not beyond reproach. No Christian individual or sect is. When in doubt, go back to the book. Today Christians in doubt are being instructed to conduct a war on moral relativism, further distracting them from internal examination & self discipline. Holier than thou arguments asserted by Christians making their way into politics can only be answered one way... what would Jesus do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
The Bible as history book...
The Biblical writer was a mortal male limited in his ability to communicate, and also to comprehend fully what it was he was witnessing. This is not actually at odds with science, I agree, but to presume so much infallibility to witnesses in Biblical times comes the danger of worshiping an apostle, or worshiping Jesus alone, where the over arching Godhead is displaced by myopia. Our ability as humans is limited in ability to perceive, comprehend, and communicate and as such should humble us all equally if we are earnest in practice.

Jesus did not come as a mason to etch tablets of thou shalt. He was a carpenter. His other career was 'a fisher of men'. Why?
Ok, I'm going to take a stab at the bolded portions from top to bottom but pardon me if I stray and my answers are not linear as these types of discussions often end up rather organic being they are based upon matter of faith and belief.

As Christianity has broken into more and more fragments and subsequently, more and more differing interpretations of the same original works which were created by men in ancient times based upon what they heard and saw. The further interpretations of ancient opinions of other men which give us these various sects will question everything about what is truth and to be accepted and what is not. While they are willing to believe or dis-believe anything, they never ask themselves, if this isn't right and that is wrong, could it be that this entire thing is wrong.

Man cannot create a worm but he will create a hundred Gods to create and rule the universe.

I will point out that I'm not an atheist for the very same reason I do not follow religion. To my knowledge, no one has ever disproved the existence of Zeus yet either. I say we are all at least agnostics, because unless people believe in Zeus, Thor, Zanthria, God, Saturn, Moloch, etc... then we are the same as the only real difference is that I believe in one less God than they do.

As to the OP's question of the Bible being predicated upon civility and the Qur'an being predicated upon etiquette, I have to also add that Christianity has dispensed with all those "prickly" texts which endorse slavery, public stonings, etc... and is now a pick and choose buffet. While the Islamic world is still where the Catholic church was in the Middle Ages. The Christian texts are just as brutal, its just that Christians today dispense with following their own texts and doctrines whereas many Muslims do not.

If God existed, the sickest joke he ever played was giving his word to man to give to others and expecting man to hold true to the word of God. What a jester.... no wonder God gave a turtle the drag coefficient of .05, he has a stellar sense of humor.
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Old 12-10-2010, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,139 posts, read 22,729,514 times
Reputation: 14116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
How do you know the snake couldn't talk at that time? God had just formed Adam and Eve from clay. Or perhaps Satan just appeared as a snake.

You sure about that? There is evidence of a global flood, along with numerous flood legends in many different cultures from around the world that would seem to indicate that perhaps they are based off of some element of truth.

You sure about that? If they all spoke the same language at first, why would they change to new languages?

One plague did.

Jesus did. He also raised Lazarus.

Based on your faulty evidence, you believe it is. I get that.


Got any good reasons?
This response is so predictable it doesn't even deserve a response. So I'll post this! BEHOLD! Your god and mine:

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Old 12-10-2010, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,139 posts, read 22,729,514 times
Reputation: 14116
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
And WHERE praytell did such a megalomaniacal notion come from???

OPPS! Don't look too closely... IT'S ANOTHER RELIGION!!!
Yes, the chuch of righteous iniquity strikes again. MWHAAAAAA!!!!
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Old 12-13-2010, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,290 posts, read 15,243,278 times
Reputation: 6658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
Why isn't the Bible history? There is a lot of archaelogical evidence that affirms a lot of the Bible.
Once upon there was a poster called Calvinist who posted on the city-data.com forums. - True

This poster joined the forums in Dec 2009. - True

This poster was a three-headed, gay, pink unicorn. - True?

Just because some parts of a story are true doesn't mean that all the parts of the story are true
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