Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-08-2010, 01:37 PM
 
15,050 posts, read 8,624,668 times
Reputation: 7415

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
There is no such thing as economic equality in ANY system of government.
Oh ... I beg to differ .... in socialist/communist systems ... economic poverty is equally distributed to all BUT the political ruling class.

And this is pretty much where we are today in America ... we pretend we have a free market capitalist economy ... but we don't. We have crony capitalism, which pretty much does the same thing as communism-socialism ... concentrating the wealth in the hands of the few .... the corporations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-08-2010, 02:01 PM
 
3,566 posts, read 3,732,218 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I disagree that freedom and economic equality can't co-exist.

Flat tax, learn it, know it, love it.

Every American of working age pays x% on their income. You make more, you pay a higher dollar amount, but the same percentage as everyone else. You want to increase government spending, great, the tax rate has to go up so many percentage points to pay for it, and let the people decide if its worthy enough of their money.

Rich folks don't like that because they'd have to pay a higher dollar amount. Poor folks don't like it because they'd have to pay income tax.

But, in my mind and a lot of others, its the only way to be fair, and have the freedom that we all enjoy so much.
You've just described the biblical tithe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2010, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,379,671 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
You've just described the biblical tithe.
Nah, a flat tax wouldn't go to pad the pockets of priests who are molesting young boys.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2010, 02:04 PM
 
3,566 posts, read 3,732,218 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Then one can't complain "I pay more than they do" or that the rich are getting tax breaks that no one else is getting.

It essentially levels the playing field as far as the government is concerned. Sure, there will always be one guy who makes a dollar an hour more than you do, thats just the free market. But where the "unfair" wording is thrown around is when people see the richest Americans getting tax breaks they aren't getting.

No one complain that they are unfairly being taxed, because now the government would look at the population as a total, and everyone pays x percent of the pie.
And everyone would have skin in the game, i.e., an interest in seeing that politicians don't abuse their hard-earned dollars.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2010, 02:05 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,183,550 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Oh ... I beg to differ .... in socialist/communist systems ... economic poverty is equally distributed to all BUT the political ruling class.

And this is pretty much where we are today in America ... we pretend we have a free market capitalist economy ... but we don't. We have crony capitalism, which pretty much does the same thing as communism-socialism ... concentrating the wealth in the hands of the few .... the corporations.
Hmmm..interesting. By socialist, do you mean Sweden socialist, Chinese socialist, or Cuba socialist?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2010, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,379,671 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
And everyone would have skin in the game, i.e., an interest in seeing that politicians don't abuse their hard-earned dollars.
Exactly right.

"We want to go to war with Iraq"

"We need this much money, so we'll have to raise taxes on every man and woman working by 10% until the duration of the war"

May actually make people stop and think before doing crap like that.

"We want universal healthcare, it'll cost you 20% of your income"

Yeah, who wants that right?

Pay as you go, with a flat tax, I'm in heaven.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2010, 02:35 PM
 
15,050 posts, read 8,624,668 times
Reputation: 7415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I disagree that freedom and economic equality can't co-exist.

Flat tax, learn it, know it, love it.

Every American of working age pays x% on their income. You make more, you pay a higher dollar amount, but the same percentage as everyone else. You want to increase government spending, great, the tax rate has to go up so many percentage points to pay for it, and let the people decide if its worthy enough of their money.

Rich folks don't like that because they'd have to pay a higher dollar amount. Poor folks don't like it because they'd have to pay income tax.

But, in my mind and a lot of others, its the only way to be fair, and have the freedom that we all enjoy so much.
I can see that you really believe this ... but it's not at all a desirable system. We already have the best system ... we just have allowed the government to circumvent and flip the system inside out, at the directions coming from private bankers.

As the founding fathers designed our constitution, they outlined the issues of taxation ... income tax on the wages and salaries of the common people were never part of that .. in reality, such was outlawed by the constitution! Income tax was designed to be paid by business, from corporate profit .. ostensibly involving "foreign commerce". And the genius of that system cannot be overstated, nor the benefits be more broadly positive. And it worked great for almost 150 years, until the FEderal Reserve Act and the 16th Amendment turned the system inside out, reversing the formula, and providing economic disparity, rather than prosperity.

When corporations engaged in foreign commerce are the predominate source of income for the federal government ... the FedGov has a vested interest in providing an environment that encourages foreign commerce (trade) because it's the source of their income. They would structure the laws to disallow off shoring of industry, and discourage trade imbalances, while ensuring the fertile ground for corporate profitability ... since tax is based on profits and not gross revenues. This provides a net, net, net positive economic environment that is good for the people, the corporations, and the country as a whole.

The people, free of taxation on their labor are thusly free ... and not financial slaves to the government. The government would then not be able to borrow billions and trillions, off loading the burden onto the people with long term debt and ever increasing taxation to pay for their largesse. This would in turn keep government small and efficient, and keep federal impositions on the liberties of the people to a minimum.

The reverse of this is how things currently operate ... corporations, primarily transnational corporations pay no tax presently ... and profit greatly from moving operations and manufacturing off shore, contrary to the best interests of the people and the country's economic prosperity as a whole. Because these corporations manufacture most things outside the US now .. their interests are best served by trade imbalances as we import their cheap, foreign made products into this country rather than producing it ourselves.

Government tax revenues currently come from INTERNAL sources, rather than external ... meaning we are taxing ourselves out of existence. The government continues to borrow Trillions from the same private financial oligarchy that own the transnational corporations ... placing the people in ever increasing levels of long term debt ... or .. total financial slavery. Working with the private bankers, the government has unlimited access to funding, eliminating the self interests involved in the economic prosperity of the nation as a whole, making it irrelevant for them to consider and act upon the mechanisms which ensure that broad economic prosperity. And this unlimited source of income from the private banks ensure two things .... 1) the government won't remain small and efficient ... but grow ever larger and inefficient, including the increasing federal impositions on the freedoms of the people. 2) The private banks, being the source of funds for the government, effectively OWN the government, thereby guaranteeing the government serves the corporations, and not the people.

All of this is made possible by the reversal of the taxing powers as outlined in the constitution ... taxing the people's labor rather than the profits of foreign commerce as was the original design. And this reversal was engineered by the private bankers themselves ... the 1913 Federal Reserve Act, and the 16th Amendment of the same year.

ANY TAX ON THE PEOPLE"S LABOR ... be it graduated, flat ... whatever .. only serves to support this fraudulent and self defeating system that currently exists. Income tax on the people's labor is slavery, and government income coming exclusively from internal sources is a recipe for economic suicide, and must be halted.

Don't support this insanity ... no matter what form it presents itself!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2010, 05:52 PM
 
45,540 posts, read 27,157,256 times
Reputation: 23859
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
I can see that you really believe this ... but it's not at all a desirable system. We already have the best system ... we just have allowed the government to circumvent and flip the system inside out, at the directions coming from private bankers.

As the founding fathers designed our constitution, they outlined the issues of taxation ... income tax on the wages and salaries of the common people were never part of that .. in reality, such was outlawed by the constitution! Income tax was designed to be paid by business, from corporate profit .. ostensibly involving "foreign commerce". And the genius of that system cannot be overstated, nor the benefits be more broadly positive. And it worked great for almost 150 years, until the FEderal Reserve Act and the 16th Amendment turned the system inside out, reversing the formula, and providing economic disparity, rather than prosperity.

When corporations engaged in foreign commerce are the predominate source of income for the federal government ... the FedGov has a vested interest in providing an environment that encourages foreign commerce (trade) because it's the source of their income. They would structure the laws to disallow off shoring of industry, and discourage trade imbalances, while ensuring the fertile ground for corporate profitability ... since tax is based on profits and not gross revenues. This provides a net, net, net positive economic environment that is good for the people, the corporations, and the country as a whole.

The people, free of taxation on their labor are thusly free ... and not financial slaves to the government. The government would then not be able to borrow billions and trillions, off loading the burden onto the people with long term debt and ever increasing taxation to pay for their largesse. This would in turn keep government small and efficient, and keep federal impositions on the liberties of the people to a minimum.

The reverse of this is how things currently operate ... corporations, primarily transnational corporations pay no tax presently ... and profit greatly from moving operations and manufacturing off shore, contrary to the best interests of the people and the country's economic prosperity as a whole. Because these corporations manufacture most things outside the US now .. their interests are best served by trade imbalances as we import their cheap, foreign made products into this country rather than producing it ourselves.

Government tax revenues currently come from INTERNAL sources, rather than external ... meaning we are taxing ourselves out of existence. The government continues to borrow Trillions from the same private financial oligarchy that own the transnational corporations ... placing the people in ever increasing levels of long term debt ... or .. total financial slavery. Working with the private bankers, the government has unlimited access to funding, eliminating the self interests involved in the economic prosperity of the nation as a whole, making it irrelevant for them to consider and act upon the mechanisms which ensure that broad economic prosperity. And this unlimited source of income from the private banks ensure two things .... 1) the government won't remain small and efficient ... but grow ever larger and inefficient, including the increasing federal impositions on the freedoms of the people. 2) The private banks, being the source of funds for the government, effectively OWN the government, thereby guaranteeing the government serves the corporations, and not the people.

All of this is made possible by the reversal of the taxing powers as outlined in the constitution ... taxing the people's labor rather than the profits of foreign commerce as was the original design. And this reversal was engineered by the private bankers themselves ... the 1913 Federal Reserve Act, and the 16th Amendment of the same year.

ANY TAX ON THE PEOPLE"S LABOR ... be it graduated, flat ... whatever .. only serves to support this fraudulent and self defeating system that currently exists. Income tax on the people's labor is slavery, and government income coming exclusively from internal sources is a recipe for economic suicide, and must be halted.

Don't support this insanity ... no matter what form it presents itself!!
Good posts. It's been a slow slide from the founding fathers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2010, 08:00 PM
 
565 posts, read 485,728 times
Reputation: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821 View Post
Great post.
Sort off
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2010, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,379,671 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Good posts. It's been a slow slide from the founding fathers.
Y'all are forgetting one little detail.

If you raise corporate taxes, corporations will leave the country.

This is why we now tax the individual. Like many of the founding fathers ideals, their time has come and gone. Perhaps they'll come again in a world where corporations are locked into one country because the rest of the world is unstable, but that time is not today.

If we wait for that to occur, we'll be bankrupt. The answer now is a personal flat tax, because everyone benefits from government programs in one way or another, and then we move forward. Cut spending to make the dollar worth more, so that Americans have more buying power.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:32 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top