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Old 12-11-2010, 01:02 AM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,773,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWatson13 View Post
This can't be serious? Reagan SOLD THIS COUNTRY OUT and manufacturing went down the tubes.

There is no FREE TRADE.

I REFUSE to buy cheap crap made in China. FU Walmart and FU Macys and everyone else that sells it. I look for American made and other countries that are true partners with us and yes it costs more.

Then idiots BUY THIS CHEAP CHINA CRAP. If WE KNOW they make 10 cents a freaking week, WHY IS THIS SWEATER $200? STOP BUYING IT.
I find it more than a little ironic, perhaps a generational thing, that people used to decry communism vehemently-- look at their store shelves as proof. No choices, just the state made brand.

I now look at my store shelves and see communist (china) everywhere. They're telling me it's all in my imagination but I see communism on every shelf and hard pressed to find anything that isn't communist. Make people desperate enough they'll sell their own children with government consent. That's what pitting economies off one another does.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:05 AM
 
3,117 posts, read 4,583,218 times
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People like to blame the Chinese for stealing their jobs because it absolves them of having to look in the mirror and realize that they have in some way failed. People like this need someone to blame.

It's always "Because of some greedy CEO and some corporate fatcats, my $25 an hour factory job got offshored to China where it's now being done by some 10 year old!"

It's never "Man, my skillset, life decisions into adulthood, and ultimate career choices are all so bad that the only thing I know how to do can be competently done by an illiterate 10 year old Chinese kid who hasn't even hit puberty yet. How sad is that? Maybe I need to learn some better skills".

Why? THe latter statement would require introspection and a desire to improve oneself. The former statement allows the individual to be a perpetual victim that's just being *#$@ed over by someone else because the deck is stacked against them.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:10 AM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,773,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebelt1234 View Post
I totally agree. I live in a manufacturing community that has been devastated by outsourcing. Those jobs went to Mexico and were replaced with fast food restaurants. Many of the people that were laid off are now working two or three jobs just to make ends meet. My town went from being thriving to having a high poverty rate. And people wonder why there are so many on welfare. Well, if your job is gone overseas for good, that savings will only last so long. Fast food jobs don't support families.

Now, we have IT jobs, medical transcription, medical billing and coding, accounting, paralegal, and even some food is now imported. There is no career available that has enough openings right now to absorb all the people that have lost jobs to outsourcing. We just can't keep allowing China, India, and Mexico to keep taking all of our jobs.
Jobs weren't taken. They were given. Reaganomics fed middle class to the bottom class and lined the pockets of the top + international scavenge 'investors' lining up the auction for the family jewels. Genius? At destruction, yes.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:18 AM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,773,368 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos View Post
People like to blame the Chinese for stealing their jobs because it absolves them of having to look in the mirror and realize that they have in some way failed. People like this need someone to blame.

It's always "Because of some greedy CEO and some corporate fatcats, my $25 an hour factory job got offshored to China where it's now being done by some 10 year old!"

It's never "Man, my skillset, life decisions into adulthood, and ultimate career choices are all so bad that the only thing I know how to do can be competently done by an illiterate 10 year old Chinese kid who hasn't even hit puberty yet. How sad is that? Maybe I need to learn some better skills".

Why? THe latter statement would require introspection and a desire to improve oneself. The former statement allows the individual to be a perpetual victim that's just being *#$@ed over by someone else because the deck is stacked against them.
Those $25 factory jobs were rare at best. The rates on average were substantially lower for a higher skill set than you are aware. What career choices is a very real question for huge swaths of the population.

You're young and foolish believing that only your career has value. You have no idea all you've taken for granted. I guess you need to find out the hard way. Your arrogance is your nemesis.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:48 AM
 
3,117 posts, read 4,583,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Those $25 factory jobs were rare at best. The rates on average were substantially lower for a higher skill set than you are aware. What career choices is a very real question for huge swaths of the population.

You're young and foolish believing that only your career has value. You have no idea all you've taken for granted. I guess you need to find out the hard way. Your arrogance is your nemesis.
I'm not one of the people out looking for work, and I've never heard of a 10 year old Chinese boy doing my job.

See, you couldn't refute that part of the post; you clung to the hourly wage portion of it, which was completely irrelevant. The core point is that if you are doing a job that a 10 year old kid with zero education can do, then perhaps you need a better skill.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:03 AM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,773,368 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos View Post
I'm not one of the people out looking for work, and I've never heard of a 10 year old Chinese boy doing my job.

See, you couldn't refute that part of the post; you clung to the hourly wage portion of it, which was completely irrelevant. The core point is that if you are doing a job that a 10 year old kid with zero education can do, then perhaps you need a better skill.
Tool and die making is not the skill of a 10 yr old. Neither are running textile looms. You really have no idea what manufacturing in USA ever looked like. You've had your head in digital world since you were born? Whatever your problem is xana I suggest you think again about your free speech if you walk around in Ohio. Go ahead and talk smack to all those people marching out of Lehman building with their careers in a box. See what happens.

Oh, and another thing you haven't figured quite yet-- sometimes when you 'win', you've actually lost more than you were betting in the first place. Food for thought from an old salt.
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Old 12-11-2010, 04:12 AM
 
3,117 posts, read 4,583,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Tool and die making is not the skill of a 10 yr old. Neither are running textile looms. You really have no idea what manufacturing in USA ever looked like. You've had your head in digital world since you were born? Whatever your problem is xana I suggest you think again about your free speech if you walk around in Ohio. Go ahead and talk smack to all those people marching out of Lehman building with their careers in a box. See what happens.

Oh, and another thing you haven't figured quite yet-- sometimes when you 'win', you've actually lost more than you were betting in the first place. Food for thought from an old salt.
1) Why would I go to Ohio? That place is the armpit of America. Christ, your lakes spontaneously combust out there.

2) You can say that die making or running looms isn't the skill of a 10 year old boy, but I've got a pair of Nikes on my feet right now that were sewn by some 10 year old Chinese kid, and I'm wearing a jacket from Columbia Sportswear that was made by another one ("on the loom" as you like to put it), and I'm reasonably certain the drill set I used to put up my new bed yesterday was made by one, as well. So who am I gonna believe? You or my lyin' eyes? Cause I've got tangible products here that say a 10 year old can do that stuff....and do it well.

I stand by my statement.
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:42 AM
 
4,555 posts, read 4,095,343 times
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If you want things made in a responsible manner, you have to pay the price.

The problem is that Americans are obsessed with having tons of cheap crap that doesn't last.

Some people have developed conscience though and the fair trade movement has gained traction.
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:56 AM
 
4,555 posts, read 4,095,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos View Post
Why? THe latter statement would require introspection and a desire to improve oneself. The former statement allows the individual to be a perpetual victim that's just being *#$@ed over by someone else because the deck is stacked against them.
Everyone is replaceable. Even you. As soon as its possible you will be replaced by a cheaper counterpart in a foreign nation, or someone who will work harder and faster for less.

Another mistake you make is the automatic assumption that gaining skills means better job. Typical conservative thinking thats out of touch with reality. If everyone goes out and gains more job skills, all we will get are more overqualified gas station attendants, cashiers, stock boys etc. Pay those at the bottom enough to afford cost of living and save for a rainy day. If they make bad choices from there then fine its their fault. Until a fair wage is paid though, its just more conservative BS to say "its your fault for being unskilled"

There are more important factors to one's life than work. Most people don't want to be enslaved by the pursuit of trying to simply make a living, which is what the lower class of this country is often forced to do through underpayment of wages, overpriced rent, fuel, etc.

But stick to those conservative sheeple talking points like "perpetual victim" and "gain more skills" they sound more believable after I've heard the millionth sheeple bleating them out.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:08 PM
 
3,117 posts, read 4,583,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odinloki1 View Post
Everyone is replaceable. Even you. As soon as its possible you will be replaced by a cheaper counterpart in a foreign nation, or someone who will work harder and faster for less.
Won't happen. Know why? I take the steps necessary to keep myself in demand. I don't become idle. I realize that there are people nipping at my heels who want what I have, and I keep moving to ensure they don't get it. Unlike the perpetually unemployed who have been sitting around for 2 years bitching about how they can't find a job, but doing nothing about it.

Quote:
Another mistake you make is the automatic assumption that gaining skills means better job. Typical conservative thinking thats out of touch with reality. If everyone goes out and gains more job skills, all we will get are more overqualified gas station attendants, cashiers, stock boys etc.
I deal in reality. You deal in hyperbole. Yes, if everyone went out and got skills, that would happen. The thing is, that will never happen because there will never be a shortage of the lazy, unmotivated, and unprepared. THere will always be a base of no-skills by which to build upon.

Pay those at the bottom enough to afford cost of living and save for a rainy day. If they make bad choices from there then fine its their fault. Until a fair wage is paid though, its just more conservative BS to say "its your fault for being unskilled"

Quote:
There are more important factors to one's life than work. Most people don't want to be enslaved by the pursuit of trying to simply make a living, which is what the lower class of this country is often forced to do through underpayment of wages, overpriced rent, fuel, etc.
They don't want to be enslaved by the pursuit of simply making a living. OK.
But you know what? They NEED to be able to pay their bills and buy food. Needs trump wants. So I don't care what they "want". I care that they should be doing what they need to do. And that's working, even if they hate it.
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