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Old 12-09-2010, 12:28 PM
 
5,758 posts, read 11,634,135 times
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The premise of this thread is that economists are actually correct in their predictions about the economy, though.

Is that actually true?

How many economists actually not only predicted the 2008 economic crisis before 2008, but also predicted the boom-times (eg, wasn't simply a "perma-bear")?

A lot of modern economics and econometrics has to do with research into very narrow and arcane issues anyway. Those economists don't even hold themselves out as capable of predicting trends across the entire economy.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,771,962 times
Reputation: 24863
Corrupt Crony Business disguised as Capitalism is why. We hired gluttons instead of guard dogs to take care of our money and they killed or lost most of it.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:30 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,299,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkiel View Post
There are too many non-economists making decisions about how to run the economy. Most of the politicians have no understanding of economics.
The reason the economy in the United States sucks comes down to one thing:

LACK of Investment!

The average annual rate of increase real fixed private investment increased in the United at a rate of 0.624% a year from 2001 to 2008

The average annual rate of increase in direct foreign investment from the United States to countries in the same time period was 11.98%.

Gross fixed investments in China are 46.30% of GDP. Gross fixed investments in the United States are 12.3% of GDP. China ranks #1 in the world in this category. The United States ranks #145.


This is NOT an issue that can be controlled by a Republican or Democrat or a Conservative or Liberal. The President can't solve this problem and neither can Congress.

Corporations in America are far more powerful in terms of controlling the economy than the United States government. They decides who gets paid what. They decide the amount of wage increases. They decide how much executives get paid. They decide when they are going to raise in lower prices on their products and services.

What many corporations have decided is that it's far more profitable to invest their money in other countries and in the financial markets than to invest it buildings factories and people in the United States.

THAT'S WHY THE ECONOMY SUCKS!
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,771,962 times
Reputation: 24863
I agree with jazzytallguy.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:32 PM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,727,592 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
The reason the economy in the United States sucks comes down to one thing:

LACK of Investment!

The average annual rate of increase real fixed private investment increased in the United at a rate of 0.624% a year from 2001 to 2008

The average annual rate of increase in direct foreign investment from the United States to countries in the same time period was 11.98%.

Gross fixed investments in China are 46.30% of GDP. Gross fixed investments in the United States are 12.3% of GDP. China ranks #1 in the world in this category. The United States ranks #145.

This is NOT an issue that can be controlled by a Republican or Democrat or a Conservative or Liberal. The President can't solve this problem and neither can Congress.

Corporations in America are far more powerful in terms of controlling the economy than the United States government. They decides who gets paid what. They decide the amount of wage increases. They decide how much executives get paid. They decide when they are going to raise in lower prices on their products and services.

What many corporations have decided is that it's far more profitable to invest their money in other countries and in the financial markets than to invest it buildings factories and people in the United States.

THAT'S WHY THE ECONOMY SUCKS!
Good post. Sounds to me like Americans are too expensive.

if you're going to demand high wages in the global market, you'd better bring some red-hot skills to the table.

however, i am no expert on domestic and foreign investment. isn't this mainly a result of our 2000-2008 monetary policy?
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:34 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,995 posts, read 44,804,275 times
Reputation: 13695
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
that's funny. i could have sworn it was poorly-regulated capitalism that caused all this.

was Countrywide socialist?
Countrywide? They were in cahoots with Dem darling Fannie Mae in a BIG way on the "Let's lend money to unqualified borrowers, what could possibly go wrong?" bandwagon.
Quote:
"Underwriting Standards
Countrywide tends to follow the most flexible underwriting criteria permitted under GSE and FHA guidelines. Because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac tend to give their best lenders access to the most flexible underwriting criteria, Countrywide benefits from its status as one of the largest originators of mortgage loans and one of the largest participants in the GSE programs.
When necessary—in cases where applicants have no established credit history, for example—Countrywide uses nontraditional credit, a practice now accepted by the GSEs."
Case Study: Countrywide Home Loans, Inc.
published by Fannie Mae Foundation, 2000
http://content.knowledgeplex.org/kp2...ountrywide.pdf (http://content.knowledgeplex.org/kp2/programs/pdf/rep_newmortmkts_countrywide.pdf - broken link)

Quote:
"Some of the problems are surfacing in a mortgage program called "Fast and Easy," in which borrowers were asked to provide little or no documentation of their finances, according to these people and to former Countrywide employees. Both Countrywide and Fannie Mae, the government-sponsored company that bought many of the loans, classify the loans as "prime," meaning low-risk." (Those would be the infamous 'no doc' liar loans.)
"...A Fannie spokesman agreed that the verification of employment wasn't required on all loans, but added that Countrywide was expected to verify employment details on a "sampling" of loans. The Countrywide spokesman said his company fulfilled that obligation.
Countrywide Loss Focuses Attention on Underwriting - WSJ.com (may require subscription)
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,020 posts, read 14,198,297 times
Reputation: 16747
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
that's funny. i could have sworn it was poorly-regulated capitalism that caused all this.

was Countrywide socialist? how about Goldman Sachs, were they socialist? is Citi socialist?

when Greenspan left rates low for an extended period of time, was that socialist?

when AIG issued credit-default swaps worth $440 billion, with no capital whatsoever to cover those swaps in the event of a loss, was that socialist?

enlighten me, because I didn't get my degree from Glenn Beck Tech.
Glad to enlighten you!
And it's not your fault, we're all victims of the world's greatest propaganda ministry (that GB is part of, too).

Capitalist Principles
CAPITALISM - An economic system in which the means of production, distribution and exchange are privately owned and operated for private profit.
- - - WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY

PRIVATE PROPERTY - "As protected from being taken for public uses, is such property as belongs absolutely to an individual, and of which he has the exclusive right of disposition. Property of a specific, fixed and tangible nature, capable of being in possession and transmitted to another, such as houses, lands, and chattels."
- - - Black's Law dictionary, sixth ed., p.1217
If you concatenate capitalism with private property, you can see the "inconvenient truth".
Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production, distribution and exchange are absolutely owned by individuals and operated for their individual profit.
A farmer who absolutely owns his farm is a true capitalist.
A farmer who does not, is a tenant.
A worker who absolutely owns the fruits of his labor is a true capitalist.
A worker who does not, is a serf.

Is that clear?

What most Americans presume to be "capitalism" is actually USURY.
Usury has been denounced for over 3500 years.
Usury is mathematically impossible to pay in any finite money token system.

The usurers "took over" after the U.S. government went bankrupt in 1933, and instituted socialism as a means to disguise their skim of the American sheeple.

(Just this year, the "skim" of interest payments is greater than what the U.S. spent in prosecuting WW2.)

And their propaganda ministry convinced millions to cooperate, and by all accounts, are quite successful at keeping Americans ignorant and apathetic.

Do not believe me - go read the law for yourself. It is available in any county courthouse law library.

==============
References:
Collective Ownership by the State -
U.S. Treasury - FAQs: Legal Tender Status of currency
"Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy."

How we were robbed by FDR and the socialists
The Great Gold Robbery of 1933 - Thomas E. Woods, Jr. - Mises Daily

Money Reference

Emergency Powers Statutes, Senate Report SR 93-549, November 19, 1973
Senate Report 93-549
War and Emergency Powers Acts

"A majority of the people of the United States have lived all of their lives under emergency rule. For 40 years (1933-1973), freedoms and governmental procedures guaranteed by the Constitution have, in varying degrees, been abridged by laws brought into force by states of national emergency."
Most Americans have lived their entire lives under EMERGENCY RULES that abridge FREEDOMS guaranteed by the USCON... (yes, they TOOK AWAY our FREEDOMS).
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:49 PM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,727,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Glad to enlighten you!
gee, i always wanted an awkwardly-written explanation of how fractional reserve banking works.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,735,123 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
t
was Countrywide socialist? how about Goldman Sachs, were they socialist? is Citi socialist?
.

Yes. These businesses are regulated by the Federal Government. They are required to lend money to certain segments of the population and limited on interest rates they can charge, among many many other things.

Maybe socialist is the wrong word, but it is certainly government controlled.

On top of that, the govt decided who would fail and who they would bail out. That's about as big and powerful as government can get, and the best description for it is "crony capitalism."

Government controlled capitalism is not really capitalism.
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Old 12-09-2010, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,020 posts, read 14,198,297 times
Reputation: 16747
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
gee, i always wanted an awkwardly-written explanation of how fractional reserve banking works.
If that is what you gleaned from reading the previous post, perhaps you need to re-read it again.

Focus on "capitalism" and private ownership.

Mull what "absolute ownership" means.

Think about private property being explicitly protected.

And remember that estate (real and personal property) is NOT private property, not protected, and subject to being taken without just compensation.
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