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For instance retirement here is not like tapping a savings account. I read somewhere that the contributions one pays into the system today are already used up two or three days later. My future rent will depend on the contributions made by others when I am old. Rich people are foolish if they think they will be much better off later on, especially in countries which are aging fast.
Which is why you have to work hard and save up to take care of yourself when you're old. You can't really have a good life if you depend on SS, a system that is going bankrupt quickly, to live when you're older. I'm 27 and I sure as heck know I won't be able to rely on SS when it's time to retire.
Do you honestly think you're going to be able to work when you're 80? You can spread it out all you want, but if you think you're gonna be out digging ditches or doing manual labor well into your twilight years, you're fooling yourself. Have you seen the pace at which elderly grocery baggers move? I'm not saying they're not working hard, but as your body wears out, you're supposed to stop working, not continue on just b/c you made bad decisions in life. That's why in America, we always talk about planning for retirement...making good decisions and planning early so you don't have to work and stress your body further when you're 70+ years old. If you want to work out of boredom, that is A-OK with me, though.
The age at which one dies is increasing in America. That's what we're talking about here. I can't speak on other countries as I do not know the age at which people die, nor do I know much about their economic policies and what is the norm there.
As soon as I pay into a insurance system, I am entitled to making use of it when I need it. That goes for both the US and Europe. If I don't meet the insurance requirements and conditions I won't get anything. But I do meet them, thus I am entitled to help if I need it.
You are not ENTITLED to anything. You pay taxes which go to fund LOTS of things. Not just welfare. It's not like "Well I put $5000 into the kitty last year so now that I've lost my job, I'm sure as heck gonna get that $5000 in the form of entitlements." No, it absolutely does not work that way. Besides which, you already stated you do not pay taxes, therefore, your entire premise is invalid.
You are making statements that are simply false. 'not yield anything' and 'taxed to death' are simply ridiculous statements when you talk about people making hundreds of thousands of $ and keeping about half of that for themselves
If I said a poor person should also pay a 50% income tax, you would say that's taxed to death. Would you not? It's still a percentage.
Which is why you have to work hard and save up to take care of yourself when you're old. You can't really have a good life if you depend on SS, a system that is going bankrupt quickly, to live when you're older. I'm 27 and I sure as heck know I won't be able to rely on SS when it's time to retire.
Do you honestly think you're going to be able to work when you're 80? You can spread it out all you want, but if you think you're gonna be out digging ditches or doing manual labor well into your twilight years, you're fooling yourself. Have you seen the pace at which elderly grocery baggers move? I'm not saying they're not working hard, but as your body wears out, you're supposed to stop working, not continue on just b/c you made bad decisions in life. That's why in America, we always talk about planning for retirement...making good decisions and planning early so you don't have to work and stress your body further when you're 70+ years old. If you want to work out of boredom, that is A-OK with me, though.
The age at which one dies is increasing in America. That's what we're talking about here. I can't speak on other countries as I do not know the age at which people die, nor do I know much about their economic policies and what is the norm there.
I don't expect ever to retire. Hardly anyone here does as the pension (sorry, I had written rent beforen a Germanism, Rente = pension) is too low in most cases. A lot of people continue to work as farmhands and what not.
We have about the same life expectancy, in your country it is 78.3 years, in mine 78.1.
You are not ENTITLED to anything. You pay taxes which go to fund LOTS of things. Not just welfare. It's not like "Well I put $5000 into the kitty last year so now that I've lost my job, I'm sure as heck gonna get that $5000 in the form of entitlements." No, it absolutely does not work that way. Besides which, you already stated you do not pay taxes, therefore, your entire premise is invalid.
I did not say I am entitled to any fixed amount. However, I am entitled to get help from the respective system I have paid into before. That is why it is called social SECURITY (in German it is even called social insurance, literally translated). I can trust that I will not starve or live on the street when the **** hits the fan. Same goes for health, basic health care is guaranteed, over here at least.
I said 'I consider them unwise and foolish, their properties, goals, and priorities are incompatible with mine. Bad company.'
Bad company is not the same as bad people. Bad company means I don't want to have anything to do with them because of their properties etc. I was a Buddhist for many years, naturally I think of rich people the way I do.
so to you it is unwise to prepare for the future? i think even buddah would disagree with that.
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As to the rest, actually poor people are much more generous than rich people. I have seen it in Africa and even here, the poor and lower middle-class people are much more generous. Sure in absolute terms they will not give you as much as rich people, but keep in mind that to a poor person one or five dollars worth of food amounts to a much higher percentage of their wealth than a thousand dollar meal to a rich person. It is easy being generous when you are rich. Generosity only means something when the persons really feel their generosity in their wallets and accounts.
you say that the wealthy can afford to be generous, but the reality is that even when they had little those that are rich now were just as generous. take my best friend for instance. he was not rich when we met in high school, nor for several years after, and yet when ever either of us needed something, we were there for the other. today my friend owns five houses, four of them are rental properties. and he is still as generous as he was when we were younger.
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Originally Posted by Neuling
Huh? Why is it the wrong answer when you put words into my mouth, saying the opposite of what I said? I said they are complaining about paying too much taxes, I did not say they are complaining about working too much.
My point is, why does someone earning 10k a month care if they pay 3k or 4k or 5k in taxes per month? In my view that is just childish. If they are sooo pissed by the tax rate for the rich, why not cut back the work and earn less?
why not lower the tax rate ont he rich instead? remember it is the rich, even in europe, that drive the economy. they create the jobs, they spend more money, they buy the higher end products, etc. raise their taxes and they take their money and go elsewhere, and then where are the middle class and the poor? who pays the taxes needed to provide health care and retirement, and other government programs that the people depend on?
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As to your question, I just happen to be a very non-materialist person, I used to be a Buddhist for a long time, and although I no longer am for religious reasons, I still believe in various aspects of it that make sense to me, for instance that accumulating material wealth is unwise and stupid, a waste of energy and time. I feel sorry for my brother because he is wasting his only life and doesn't realize it.
just because you dont want to accumulate wealth because you feel it is wasting ones life, doesnt mean that others should feel the same way. your brother may feel that he is not wasting his life, and that you are, you ever think about that? if it were not for people who worked hard, and made the breakthroughs that made life easier overall, we would still be nomadic peoples following the herds and hunting for our food, clothing, shelter, etc.
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Originally Posted by andrea3821
You are jealous of the rich, plain and simple. You see what they have and you are jealous. You don't like rich people b/c you yourself are not rich and for some reason, you can't understand that with hard work and good decisions, you could have the things that they have. It's not about being materialistic, it's about enjoying life. Perhaps this girl and her family were an exception or something, left you with a bad taste in your mouth. But you're painting with a rather broad brush here.
I want a link to statistics or an article backing up your assertion that the poor are more generous than the rich. I think you're forgetting all the donations that the rich make, even if only to lower their tax burden. Generosity means giving of your time, talent and treasure, not just b/c you "feel it" in your wallet.
tried to rep you, couldnt.
[quote=Neuling;16988150]I can't imagine living better than I do. Myself to blame? Blame for what? Being content with what I have? Since when is that a bad thing? Where I come from modesty and humility are virtues.
My retirement will be humble as well, I am not one of those elderly who think they have a right to go on trips all the time and enjoy decades of pleasure till they finally die.[/quote
i am happy that you feel content. however you should also be happy that others feel content with their life also despite the fact that they are wealthy.
I pay no income tax, either. And it is fair that way. I pay into social security (and not little), but no taxes. To the government it makes more sense for me to continue my freelance work than if I were taxed out of my job and became unemployed and thus a burden on society.
Any healthy adult that does not pay income taxes is a leech on society unless they are living totally detached and not using any public facilities.
so to you it is unwise to prepare for the future? i think even buddah would disagree with that.
you say that the wealthy can afford to be generous, but the reality is that even when they had little those that are rich now were just as generous. take my best friend for instance. he was not rich when we met in high school, nor for several years after, and yet when ever either of us needed something, we were there for the other. today my friend owns five houses, four of them are rental properties. and he is still as generous as he was when we were younger.
why not lower the tax rate ont he rich instead? remember it is the rich, even in europe, that drive the economy. they create the jobs, they spend more money, they buy the higher end products, etc. raise their taxes and they take their money and go elsewhere, and then where are the middle class and the poor? who pays the taxes needed to provide health care and retirement, and other government programs that the people depend on?
just because you dont want to accumulate wealth because you feel it is wasting ones life, doesnt mean that others should feel the same way. your brother may feel that he is not wasting his life, and that you are, you ever think about that? if it were not for people who worked hard, and made the breakthroughs that made life easier overall, we would still be nomadic peoples following the herds and hunting for our food, clothing, shelter, etc.
tried to rep you, couldnt.
i am happy that you feel content. however you should also be happy that others feel content with their life also despite the fact that they are wealthy.
One doesn't have to be rich in order to be prepared for the future. If that were the case, 90+% of the population would not be prepared for the future. I don't think that is the case, not even in the US.
Of course there are also generous rich people, but generosity among poor people is no less, to me personally it means much more.
Maybe you describe the situation in the US, but here the middle class is the key in every way. We do almost all the work, we pay social security contributions, health insurance premiums, the bulk of all products and services sold etc.
I would like moving about as a nomad The breakthroughs you mention were mostly made by middle-class people and employees, not the rich. At best rich people such as kings financed middle-class brainpower, mostly for egoistic reasons.
I don't care about rich people, I just ignore them, they live in their world and I live in mine. But I can't ignore them when they keep whining because of taxes. They have been whining for a long time and still they have become richer and richer according to statistics. Go figure.
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a Germanism, Rente = pension) is too low in most cases. A lot of people continue to work as farmhands and what not.
Generosity means giving of your time, talent and treasure, not just b/c you "feel it" in your wallet.
The breakthroughs you mention were mostly made by middle-class people and employees, not the rich. At best rich people such as kings financed middle-class brainpower, mostly for egoistic reasons. 
