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Old 07-12-2007, 11:56 AM
 
5,652 posts, read 19,350,260 times
Reputation: 4118

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I just find it an amazing coincidence (possible conspiracy theory - warning) that the EPA has banned the sale of diesel cars and the price of gasoline suddenly skyrockets - you can't get them for a few years until they come out with clean diesel. There is a big market and no one can get a diesel car. The used ones are commanding top $$.

All the alt fuel people think that diesel and biodiesel is the way to go...

Conspiracy? I personally think the oil companies and their dealings are one giant conspiracy.

And I do think the high prices are getting people to rethink the "gas pig" lifestyle they have. In a couple years the SUV craze will be over when people start trading them in.

And face it - Some people just make so much $$ they don't care.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,700 posts, read 42,061,367 times
Reputation: 2147483647
Yup. I'm one of those terrible people that drive a big pickup truck. 1 ton Ford, 4 wheel drive. Weighs a little over 8500 lbs. Little thing holds 146 gallons of diesel fuel.

Course, I tried hauling 2500lb bails of hay to the cattle last winter in a Camry, just didn't work. Tried hauling cattle to market in a Privia. Just didn't work. But I don't have enough money to have a plethora of vehicles to pick from so I drive my pickup. Year round.

So lets see. You want to charge me an extra 3-5% to purchase this luxury. I ain't going to pay it. I'll just raise the price of my beef to offset the expenses.

Speaking of expenses. There's a tax at the fuel pump to pay for our highways and byways. Seems that you, with your hybred, arean't paying your fair share to keep up our roads. I'm paying it for you. Seeings how I spend about 80% of my time in the weeds out on the ranch and not on the highways that I help to pay for. So I"m footing the bill for that too. Guess I'd better raise the price of beef some more to offset that expense.

I think they should tax the hybreds 3-5% so they can pay for the highways they're getting away with not paying for.

Look, I'm all for good gas milage and saving fuel as best we can. I bought a 4 wheeler and I use it to check my cattle and fences and do minor hauling around the place. It gets about 3 hours per gallon of travel. Also, when I selected my big ole truck, I got a diesel because they're so much better then a gas rig.

And you want to penalize me. Go ahead. But don't ***** about the cost of groceries next year.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
739 posts, read 830,605 times
Reputation: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgussler View Post
Yup. I'm one of those terrible people that drive a big pickup truck. 1 ton Ford, 4 wheel drive. Weighs a little over 8500 lbs. Little thing holds 146 gallons of diesel fuel.

Course, I tried hauling 2500lb bails of hay to the cattle last winter in a Camry, just didn't work. Tried hauling cattle to market in a Privia. Just didn't work. But I don't have enough money to have a plethora of vehicles to pick from so I drive my pickup. Year round.

So lets see. You want to charge me an extra 3-5% to purchase this luxury. I ain't going to pay it. I'll just raise the price of my beef to offset the expenses.

Speaking of expenses. There's a tax at the fuel pump to pay for our highways and byways. Seems that you, with your hybred, arean't paying your fair share to keep up our roads. I'm paying it for you. Seeings how I spend about 80% of my time in the weeds out on the ranch and not on the highways that I help to pay for. So I"m footing the bill for that too. Guess I'd better raise the price of beef some more to offset that expense.

I think they should tax the hybreds 3-5% so they can pay for the highways they're getting away with not paying for.

Look, I'm all for good gas milage and saving fuel as best we can. I bought a 4 wheeler and I use it to check my cattle and fences and do minor hauling around the place. It gets about 3 hours per gallon of travel. Also, when I selected my big ole truck, I got a diesel because they're so much better then a gas rig.

And you want to penalize me. Go ahead. But don't ***** about the cost of groceries next year.

Amen, brother! Most of the people who advocate buying those econobox hybrids wouldn't be caught dead working on a ranch - or driving a smelly diesel truck. It would go well with their holier-than-thou image.

And before you tax-the-truck guys start asking, yes, I've worked on a farm. Still have one near Perry, Georgia and one in Alabama. Over 120 head of Angus cattle and 18 horses. Good tax incentives on farms too!
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:44 PM
 
101 posts, read 254,997 times
Reputation: 79
Okay, here is what I believe should be done for energy independence:

- This is very important: Remove the patent protection on Chevron's
NiMH batteries. The government can invoke the "eminent domain act"
to take away my home and give it to Chevron for an oil refinery.
It can also invoke its "patent law equivalent" to cancel the
NiMH battery patents that Chevron owns. These batteries are required
in "large form factor" to enable an electric vehicle. Ovonics invented
them, and the patents are now owned en-masse by Chevron.
You want to build an electric car? You gotta get permission from
Chevron first since they own the patent. They never invented it
you see, they bought it so that they can suppress Electric vehicle
technology. Write to your senator/congressman. Ask them to
introduce or support a bill to release the Chevron patents on
NiMH battery technology from patent protection.

If there are enough electric vehicles around, there will be plenty
of gasoline to go lobster-fishing in Maine or lug bales of hay.

- Stop the corn/soy/biodiesel scam, it serves no purpose and deprives
people (and cows and chicken) of food. It is criminally wrong to
allocate high yield farmland for fuel production. If you want to
do this in salty marshlands, be my guest. Believe it or not, there are
certain high yielding varieties of oil-pods that grow in saltwater.

- Tax gasoline heavily, and keep it above $4 a gallon so that
people really look at alternatives. It would be nice if that tax money
is used to pay down the national debt. And reduce the trade deficit.

- Just one more suggestion, next time you visit a store, please
look for something "Made in America". Even if it makes a dent
into your pocket (compared to a foreign made object), please,
buy it. If you don't create a demand, there won't be a supply.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:12 PM
 
66 posts, read 59,334 times
Reputation: 16
i love my suburban it may only get 14 miles to the gallon but when you dont go but into town and work you get 600 miles to a tank so i only need to fill it up ever 2 to 3 weeks and its only 115$ to fill it up each time so its not that bad!
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:13 PM
 
7,784 posts, read 14,886,977 times
Reputation: 3478
Quote:
Originally Posted by normalguy View Post
Can you please stop hurting my country with your hummer?
Sorry, but YOUR country apparently is either laying under or on top of MY country.....and my Yukon too!
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,700 posts, read 42,061,367 times
Reputation: 2147483647
I agree wholeheartedly with most of what was said. But let me clarify a couple of points.

First, there is no shortage of fuel. The shortage is man made and company created. Our refinery up the road is operating at only 45% capacity. When I asked a buddy that works there why they aren't running at a higher capacity, he said, "We have to limit our output so that we can keep the demand up and that will keep the prices up where they belong."

Secondly, taxing fuel to pay for other things. That's illegal. Right now, where I live, there's $ .47 a gallon tax on fuel. That tax is to pay for road repair, road replacement, guardrail, signs, snow removal, new roads, etc... You can't just take that money and spend it on a haircut for the Senator. Can't use it to pay off the deficit. It is called a "Road Tax" for a reason and it's illegal to use it in any other capacity.

Raising the price of fuel to above $4. is not going to make me look for something more economical. There's nothing out there for me to buy that will do the job. I have the best equipment I can get and barely get the job done. You'll either run me out of business or cause me to raise my prices high enough that a pound of burger is going to be the same as a gallon of gas. Believe me. You run me out of business and some developer is going to take this place and bust it into 3-5 acre estates. Now your going to loose thousands of acres of crop and cattle producing land. Can't be doing that too often before we're importing all of our beef from China. Now I'm sure you don't want to do that.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,026 posts, read 24,626,809 times
Reputation: 20165
I have no problem with pick up trucks if they are truly needed ( ie if you need them for agriculture , forestry etc... to haul very heavy and big stuff ) but I suspect most SUVs, pick upp trucks I see around America are not used for that purpose. Let's face it most of these have never even been off road !
As for Humvees, who on earth actually "need" one? It is irresponsible to carry on burning fossil fuels when stocks are depleting fast, our planet is more polluted than ever , global warming looms large on our planet. We have alternative fuels, and alternative modes of transport. Our love affair with the car must not completely blind us to the effects it has on our planet. I laughed last time I was in the US and saw a car advert boasting that their product did 28 miles to the gallon. My car does 46 to 50 and it's not even a green car but a simple diesel ( we will be using bio-diesel as soon as our manufacturer's warranty runs out). Petrol prices in Europe have forced manufacturers to improve mileage efficiency so it can be done. We also have plenty of alternative such as hybrid vehicles and a lot more can be developed and improved. We should also be encouraging green fuels such as bio-ethanol and bio diesels. We cannot go on wasting the way we do at the moment. It's a question of survival. In the end the Planet will win but we are the big losers.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:41 PM
 
101 posts, read 254,997 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgussler View Post
Raising the price of fuel to above $4. is not going to make me look for something more economical. There's nothing out there for me to buy that will do the job. I have the best equipment I can get and barely get the job done. You'll either run me out of business or cause me to raise my prices high enough that a pound of burger is going to be the same as a gallon of gas. Believe me. You run me out of business and some developer is going to take this place and bust it into 3-5 acre estates. Now your going to loose thousands of acres of crop and cattle producing land. Can't be doing that too often before we're importing all of our beef from China. Now I'm sure you don't want to do that.
Believe me, if you are in farming, I would hate to see you go out of business.
In fact, every time I walk into a grocery store I feel proud to see
that many agricultural products are still American. Of course, I am scared
of the day when all of our beef would be imported from China, marinated
in arsenic and mercury

And I have nothing against agricultural (or industrial use of trucks).
However, I don't see how these are useful in commuting to a desk
job or going to a grocery store, like many other have said on this
post.

If we have electric vehicles, gasoline will be used for the heavy
duty tasks and this might actually lower the cost of doing business
for people who still need gasoline-based engines. That's what we
should aim for.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Hopewell New Jersey
1,398 posts, read 7,705,053 times
Reputation: 1069
Remember...in real science there is NO free lunch....EVER !! The electrical power available on the national grid comes from nuclear, hydrocarbon and some hydro-electric power plants.
Forget geothermal,solar,and wind. As impressive looking as they may be the typical windmill dosen't produce the power required to produce another windmill.


So.... just were do we instantly get these almost limitless joules of electrical energy from to charge all these batteries since the power companies havn't been allowed to build any new plants in decades and the ones running now nation wide are at 90% plus capacity. ?

Of course there's also the "small problem" that the minning operations impose upon the environment. These are of course toxic metals we're talking about here, the production of which is very messy. Of course you also have to figure out what and how you're going to deal with the old batteries when they no longer work properly. It's one thing to set up a local recycle center for a couple of handfulls of AA and C cells. It's another level of logistics to deal with transporting heavy toxic metal laden battery packs back to some reclaiming operation. But it WILL be required and it's not something that you can deal later...
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