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Old 07-12-2007, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Wellsburg, WV
3,287 posts, read 9,185,850 times
Reputation: 3638

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Quote:
If we have electric vehicles, gasoline will be used for the heavy
duty tasks and this might actually lower the cost of doing business
for people who still need gasoline-based engines. That's what we
should aim for.
When the price of an electric vehicle is the same as a gas vehicle and NOT a good 5-8,000 more, then we will talk.
Ford Escape 2008 $18,770 MSRP
Ford Escape Hybrid 2008 $25,075 MSRP.
Honda Civic Sedan 2007 $15,010 MSRP
Honda Civic Sedan Hybrid 2007 $22,600 MSRP

Get hybrids down where the AVERAGE person can afford them. Liz
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,849,212 times
Reputation: 3920
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBrown View Post
Remember...in real science there is NO free lunch....EVER !! The electrical power available on the national grid comes from nuclear, hydrocarbon and some hydro-electric power plants.
Forget geothermal,solar,and wind. As impressive looking as they may be the typical windmill dosen't produce the power required to produce another windmill.


So.... just were do we instantly get these almost limitless joules of electrical energy from to charge all these batteries since the power companies havn't been allowed to build any new plants in decades and the ones running now nation wide are at 90% plus capacity. ?

Of course there's also the "small problem" that the minning operations impose upon the environment. These are of course toxic metals we're talking about here, the production of which is very messy. Of course you also have to figure out what and how you're going to deal with the old batteries when they no longer work properly. It's one thing to set up a local recycle center for a couple of handfulls of AA and C cells. It's another level of logistics to deal with transporting heavy toxic metal laden battery packs back to some reclaiming operation. But it WILL be required and it's not something that you can deal later...
What? Who hasn't been allowed to build power plants? Maybe not nuclear, but the tide seems to be changing on that. As far as other energy means, every time I turn around I read about another biomass, ethanol, or wind farm plant going up. Secondly, hybrids recharge their own batteries as they are driving, either through energy produced in braking or other means.

Does anyone else think of Curly from "City Slickers" when they read jgussler's posts? J/K, don't kill me Curly.

I respect farming, and my father grew up on a farm, but seriously you can't honestly think that the majority of heavy tonnage pickup trucks are being used by farmers? (I already know the answer).

But taxing hybrids because they use LESS gas, now that's a new one I haven't heard, ROFL. I do agree that hybrids have too much of a premium over standard vehicles right now. One thing I've read about recently is being able to transform a standard vehicle into a plug-in hybrid, aftermarket.
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Old 07-12-2007, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,402 posts, read 28,721,568 times
Reputation: 12067
Quote:
Originally Posted by normalguy View Post
Believe me, if you are in farming, I would hate to see you go out of business.
In fact, every time I walk into a grocery store I feel proud to see
that many agricultural products are still American. Of course, I am scared
of the day when all of our beef would be imported from China, marinated
in arsenic and mercury

And I have nothing against agricultural (or industrial use of trucks).
However, I don't see how these are useful in commuting to a desk
job or going to a grocery store, like many other have said on this
post.

If we have electric vehicles, gasoline will be used for the heavy
duty tasks and this might actually lower the cost of doing business
for people who still need gasoline-based engines. That's what we
should aim for.
I commute to work every day on an Interstate that heads right into NYC..when they devise a way to keep Tractor trailers seperate, different lanes seperated by a divider, I might trade in my Jeep Cherokee for a Mini Cooper.....until then no way
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,213,099 times
Reputation: 7373
Actually, the purpose of the tax would be to encourage the movement to improved efficiency in vehicles. Driving an SUV or pickup is your option, and I haven't seen any reason you can't continue to do so. But my belief is that technology can overcome some of our fuel issue (I'll assume they are somewhat legit for the purpose of this discussion).

Technology exist and is close to coming online for hybrid vehicles far beyond the Prius or Camry type of transportation:

Diesel Hybrids on the Fast Track

In addition, better yield synthetic fuels may soon be available too, altering the equation about being dependent upon the middle east for oil:

iTWire - Sugar based fuels could be better than corn based ones

Finally, a large source of fuel is becoming economically available from the north:

Alberta oilsands world's largest source of new crude oil by 2010: CIBC

So to summarize, I don't view the current situation as our dwindling alternative. I believe in the intellectual power of economics, business and science, and think that about 10-12 years from now we will view our current discussion about vehicle tradeoffs as premature. But in the short term, I'm OK with the tax I mentioned earlier.
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Old 07-14-2007, 03:46 PM
j33
 
4,626 posts, read 14,084,520 times
Reputation: 1719
I always find it amusing whenever the subject of SUVs and Trucks come up, there are those that come in screaming 'but, but, I need my truck for <insert completely reasonable/legitimate purpose for owning a truck here>", but fail to make the logical leap of understanding that nobody cares about those who drive such vehicles because they are needed, what irks the average person are those who drive said vehicles who don't need them.

I wouldn't think less of you if you were contractor who drives a truck (I know quite a few), but if you are an office worker who drives a big fat supped up pick-up truck for no purpose but to assert some sort of bizarre notion of masculinity, then more than likely, I'll think you are a bit dim.
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Old 07-14-2007, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Penobscot Bay, the best place in Maine!
1,895 posts, read 5,900,568 times
Reputation: 2703
Quote:
Originally Posted by j33 View Post
I always find it amusing whenever the subject of SUVs and Trucks come up, there are those that come in screaming 'but, but, I need my truck for <insert completely reasonable/legitimate purpose for owning a truck here>", but fail to make the logical leap of understanding that nobody cares about those who drive such vehicles because they are needed, what irks the average person are those who drive said vehicles who don't need them.

I wouldn't think less of you if you were contractor who drives a truck (I know quite a few), but if you are an office worker who drives a big fat supped up pick-up truck for no purpose but to assert some sort of bizarre notion of masculinity, then more than likely, I'll think you are a bit dim.
Perhaps it's because it's rarely presented that way- most people make a general statement (as the OP did) that people shouldn't drive the larger vehicles such as SUVs, Trucks, Vans, etc. and general statements such as that inspire me to respond with information about some of those people that DO drive such vehicles. I don't think I came in screaming "but, but.."- rather I was just giving an example that for some people, such vehicles have a real purpose. If one is going to make general statements about "people who", they should be prepared to hear from those people to whom the statement does not apply.
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Old 07-14-2007, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Debary, Florida
2,267 posts, read 3,296,710 times
Reputation: 685
I drive an Expedition...have for some years now...I have no plans to shoe horn myself and my daughter into a death trap Japanese car on Florida high ways...

I have been rear ended three times in my Expedition...I can't imagine the damage it would have caused had I been in one of your PC cars...

I will take my daughters safety and my own over fuel efficiency anyday.

AND for all those out there who think they are going to make a political statement by vandalizing peoples SUV...you need to think twice about that...I won't stand by and let it happen. You will end up in jail AND have to pay to fix my truck.
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Old 07-14-2007, 06:54 PM
 
Location: alt reality
1,085 posts, read 2,232,938 times
Reputation: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by deerislesmile View Post
Perhaps it's because it's rarely presented that way- most people make a general statement (as the OP did) that people shouldn't drive the larger vehicles such as SUVs, Trucks, Vans, etc. and general statements such as that inspire me to respond with information about some of those people that DO drive such vehicles. I don't think I came in screaming "but, but.."- rather I was just giving an example that for some people, such vehicles have a real purpose. If one is going to make general statements about "people who", they should be prepared to hear from those people to whom the statement does not apply.
I agree and besides from the surface, how can one tell the real reason people drive SUVs? I mean, should these people wear a special sticker stating "I drive my SUV for legitimate reasons" so they won't receive judgement? If a contractor has a hot date one night and he removes all of his equipment from his truck, and you just happen to drive past at the moment he and his date get out of the SUV looking nice, the assumption will be made that he is a jerk that doesn't need an SUV. You can't tell me that doesn't happen from time to time. Its a d@mn shame when people have to justify the vehicle they drive. And no I don't drive an SUV so my argument has no bias.
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Old 07-14-2007, 07:26 PM
 
1,135 posts, read 3,981,718 times
Reputation: 673
Civilized countries get along just fine without SUV's.
Only in a country where developers determine transportion
issues as opposed to legitimate govt. agencies would what is
being discussed here even be an issue.
Personally I get angry because I ride a bicycle for transportation
and get no tax credits like a guy in Prius does.
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Old 07-14-2007, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
124 posts, read 91,845 times
Reputation: 58
My SUV trumps all of yours...it's a city bus!
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