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So is history going to be honest and declare who sold my kiester down the river to the Chinese? It's too cheap and easy to blame it all on Bush or walmart. Who decided to let go of trade deficits in negotiations? Who decided to sell deregulation?
The wondrous contradictions of the Clinton administration's China policy were on full display last week. On Monday President Clinton announced an "all-out" campaign to lobby Congress to pass permanent most-favored-nation status for China. The lobbying will be rough, with a fully mobilized American business community working as the iron fist inside the administration's velvet glove. The same day Clinton kicked off his new campaign, U.S. Chamber of Commerce President Thomas Donohue warned, on cue, that members of Congress who oppose permanent trade status for China "will find themselves in an unhappy situation with the business community."
Guy, you talk as if I wrote a fairy tale about capitalism (as does Rory).
I'm telling you about my real life. It is no fairy tale. Here's a couple of specific points you mentioned that we need to discuss.
1. Yes, my building has a mortgage on it. I bought it 10 years ago, and it will be paid off within the year. The bank that financed it has a long tradition of supplying credit for a price to those who are likely to return the money, in the bank's determination. Over the past 25 years, for me, they have financed homes, rental properties, commercial properties, vehicles, and business loans. I had next to nothing when I started with them as a young man; we both have prospered from the relationship. I could not have done what I did without them, and they earned money for the service they provided. Win-win deal.
1a. Yes, I pay property taxes, about 2% of the value of the building. This is not extortion or ownership of MY property: Main Street stays paved and repaired, the town is policed, fire and emergency services are covered, and they also spend money to educate the young. Do I like how every dollar is spent? No. Do I need and appreciate the services bought by my taxes? Yes.
2. Income taxes: Man, the tax rate is NOT 100%! You can read my posts to learn that I think the top 10% and the top 5% of income earners are paying enough already. You say that I don't own squat; you are just wrong. I live on a lake, have a boat, a condo in the sun and a convertible to cruise down Gulf Blvd just about any month I choose to. I guess I'll remain ignorant and have a fabulous life while you folks "in the know" spend your time pissing and moaning.
Bottom line, I have carved out a fine piece of real capitalism, and I am living it. I guess I could have chosen to simply whine about the fine points as some here do, throw up my hands and curse the bankers and the big corporations and the other political side--but I took responsibility for my existence instead. The world is not perfect, our country is not perfect, yes we have challenges including fundamental threats, but America is a can-do country.
One final point: my little business is possible in part because of mega corporations. One of them is a key partner, another popularized the productivity revolution over the past 25 years that has been so valuable to small businesses, another one provides the key machinery--which costs half as much and is 10,000 times more capable than twenty-five years ago. Thank goodness for them.
First, when I talk about the banker gangsters ... I'm not referring to the bank on Elm Street ... just to be clear.
Secondly, it seems that you and your little business have managed to "capitalize" on the opportunities presented, and good for you ... I don't begrudge anyone being successful .. so long as it's done honestly, and didn't come at the expense of others ... which unfortunately is far too often the case. In any event, I do detect a bit callousness in your tone ... the "I've got mine" mindset. And to that I would say you ain't an island. Though, if you own one, you might want to start making those relocation plans now, because time is running short.
As for the insinuation that large corporations are responsible for plowing the ground for small businesses to exist and prosper ... well that's about as silly an argument I've heard in a while .... especially given the numbers of Bankruptcies have reached record highs, along with the Thousands of homes that are being foreclosed on across the country DAILY, due to those failures and the resulting unemployment. Right now, for every one of you "fortunate ones" out there, there are 10,000 that are staring into the abyss, with virtual hell on the near horizon. And the old saying goes ... "when people have nothing left to lose, they tend to lose it".
You see, my successful friend, everything you think you own is an illusion, because the entire system is an illusion. Your assets are denominated in the same phony US Dollars as is everyone else's, consequently, we are "all in the same boat", as they say. Not only that, but your personal comfort and security relies not on a vacation home at the beach and a convertible to drive, but on the continued existence of a civil society around you.
Aside any moral deficits that may coincide with the "I've Got Mine" attitude .... the practical reality is that conditions could devolve to the point that your "I've Got Mine" may quickly become "Not for very long".
In the days to come ... security and comfort will be predicated upon the content of one's character, and not their net worth, which is, as I've already said, an illusion.
First, when I talk about the banker gangsters ... I'm not referring to the bank on Elm Street ... just to be clear.
Secondly, it seems that you and your little business have managed to "capitalize" on the opportunities presented, and good for you ... I don't begrudge anyone being successful .. so long as it's done honestly, and didn't come at the expense of others ... which unfortunately is far too often the case. In any event, I do detect a bit callousness in your tone ... the "I've got mine" mindset. And to that I would say you ain't an island. Though, if you own one, you might want to start making those relocation plans now, because time is running short.
As for the insinuation that large corporations are responsible for plowing the ground for small businesses to exist and prosper ... well that's about as silly an argument I've heard in a while .... especially given the numbers of Bankruptcies have reached record highs, along with the Thousands of homes that are being foreclosed on across the country DAILY, due to those failures and the resulting unemployment. Right now, for every one of you "fortunate ones" out there, there are 10,000 that are staring into the abyss, with virtual hell on the near horizon. And the old saying goes ... "when people have nothing left to lose, they tend to lose it".
You see, my successful friend, everything you think you own is an illusion, because the entire system is an illusion. Your assets are denominated in the same phony US Dollars as is everyone else's, consequently, we are "all in the same boat", as they say. Not only that, but your personal comfort and security relies not on a vacation home at the beach and a convertible to drive, but on the continued existence of a civil society around you.
Aside any moral deficits that may coincide with the "I've Got Mine" attitude .... the practical reality is that conditions could devolve to the point that your "I've Got Mine" may quickly become "Not for very long".
In the days to come ... security and comfort will be predicated upon the content of one's character, and not their net worth, which is, as I've already said, an illusion.
Guy, I think we are talking past each other. I spend my working hours striving to improve the lot of others, and I am good at it, and you believe I am morally deficient.
You seem to think that the mass delusion that "you can't lose money in real estate" that had people at every level over-investing in real estate, secretaries buying homes in Vegas to flip, Miami condo developers putting a decade's worth of new construction on the market in a single year, etc. etc. is the fault of Microsft and HP? You said it better than I did: "large corporations are responsible for plowing the ground for small businesses to exist and prosper."
You are right about one thing: security and comfort will be predicated upon the content of one's character. But that is true in every age, including this one. The content of my character has me making the most of what we have to work with, and serving others. Meanwhile, some people only have enough character to make excuses.
I wish you'd get with the program, because we are all richer when any one of us improves himself or herself. And we have a better chance at maintaining a civil society if more are connected to the idea that being of value to others is the path to financial security. Good luck to you.
It wasn't just that WALMART sells Chinese goods, it's that WALMART forced their suppliers to close up and move their facilities overseas leaving American Factories and jobs behind. If it were just their retailing I wouldn't care either
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckydad95
Here is a good example. I was in the market a few years ago for a chainsaw. I had settled on getting a Husqvarna because of their good reputation, knowing nothing about them because this was my first saw. The local mom and pop (no national chain affiliation) had the Husqvarna line and so did the local Lowe's. After I picked out the model that suited my needs, I did a price comparison of the two stores. The mom and pop was around $120 more than Lowe's. I asked if the would come down in price and they came down a little, but the price difference was still $75. Guess where I went?
Kentucky....you may want to check to make sure the Lowe's saw is the exact same model (check the specs and features etc...) as the local mop and pop store. Generally before these large chains will carry a name brand item like a saw....they will have Husky (in this case) change a few things on the saw to make it cheaper than the local dealers......so, I'm not sure, but it's somewhat likely that it's not the exact same saw.
Check the features and specs and let us know. They do this for everything from John Deere mowers, Weber Grills, Toro lawn mowers, Aeriens snowblowers etc....
Guy, I think we are talking past each other. I spend my working hours striving to improve the lot of others, and I am good at it, and you believe I am morally deficient.
No, that's not what I said ... I said good for you if you are successful, so long as it wasn't at others expense. Since I don't know you, nor even what business you're in, it would be extremely unfair of me to assume you're capitalizing at the expense of others.
My only remark was questioning the "I've got mine because I took personal responsibility" attitude
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo
You seem to think that the mass delusion that "you can't lose money in real estate" that had people at every level over-investing in real estate, secretaries buying homes in Vegas to flip, Miami condo developers putting a decade's worth of new construction on the market in a single year, etc. etc. is the fault of Microsft and HP? You said it better than I did: "large corporations are responsible for plowing the ground for small businesses to exist and prosper."
This segment of your response reinforces my suspicion of the "I've got mine because I'm smart" attitude, while not understanding AT ALL the real situation. Let me be perfectly blunt here, this blaming the people for assuming loans they couldn't afford is a total fraud ... they were hoodwinked, so blaming them for the meltdown is blaming the deceived rather than the deceivers. It's blaming the mugging victim for being foolish to enter THAT neighborhood, rather than the muggers. The residential real estate market was a calculated and purposely created scheme ... the bankers created the bubble by inflating the values of real estate by means of how much they assess those values to be (how much they are willing to loan on any given property mortgage) ... and they also relaxed (almost eliminated legit qualifying, in reality) the criteria for qualifying for those loans. They put people in homes (by the hundreds of thousands, if not Millions) that they absolutely knew couldn't afford them, and would wind up in foreclosure later down the road. Why? Because it was a financial windfall .... all they needed was a warm body to sign the paper ... the banks have the mortgage amount insured, so at foreclosure, they get 80% of that mortgage amount (without waiting 30 years) plus the property. Furthermore, before the ink was dry on those contracts, they were repackaged and sold as derivative investments ... many ... as it is now coming to light .... 8 or more times for the same FREAKING PROPERTY ... which explains why people with paid off mortgages are also having creditors foreclosing on their homes they though was theirs, clear. The bottom line is that the principle amount of these home loans was IMMATERIAL to the bankers ... their profits from this scam was guaranteed, with much of the profit UP FRONT. It's one of the greatest frauds in the history of the nation, and there is way more going on here than just residential real estate fraud ... nothing short of wanton criminality ... pure, unadulterated racketeering at the highest levels. We need not even consider the possibility that many of these "hoodwinked" new home owners might have actually been able to afford a mortgage on those homes had their values not been artificially inflated to begin with?
There's a lot more to the story, but that's the readers digest version of this one element .... and it's LAUGHABLE that they are trying to assign sole responsibility for the financial crisis on failed residential real estate loans, and sad that even one single individual would buy that bill of goods for a millisecond.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo
You are right about one thing: security and comfort will be predicated upon the content of one's character. But that is true in every age, including this one. The content of my character has me making the most of what we have to work with, and serving others. Meanwhile, some people only have enough character to make excuses.
I wish you'd get with the program, because we are all richer when any one of us improves himself or herself. And we have a better chance at maintaining a civil society if more are connected to the idea that being of value to others is the path to financial security. Good luck to you.
Given that all we have to go on is your word that you provide such value to your fellow man, let's assume that your word is good. And believe it or not, I share the principle idea that a "High tide raises all ships". My business depends on others being successful enough to purchase my products, which are luxury rather than necessity items, and as such are one of the first victims on the buy list when belts start to tighten. But this ultimately holds true across the board ... regardless of the product or service ... people need the disposable income to afford all but the basic necessities of food and shelter. So I'm a supreme advocate of success for everyone school of thought.
Unfortunately, that was not the philosophy of many major corporations in this country who established their success via the work and ingenuity of the American people who helped build those successful businesses only to see them move operations off shore for cheap labor, and short term gains, at the expense of the long term health of the American economy and the financial futures of the people who helped them build those empires.
The reality is, this age has demonstrated that the best way to rob a bank is to own one, and that wanton criminality, and insatiable greed pays very handsomely, so long as the criminal is wearing a $1000 suit, and holds a title like CEO or CFO. Of course this has been relatively true for quite a long time, but the levels of this has now reached saturation. The system is literally void of any semblance of legitimacy ... with not one sector of the financial system operating on the up and up. The entire system from soup to nuts is a gigantic, overt fraud and a grand heist .... and the people aren't being told the truth of what is going on ... and I assume that includes you too, since we've granted you the benefit of the doubt regarding character.
With that said, if you truly have a desire to be of service and value to others, the best first step would be to educate yourself and avoid unwittingly promoting a system that guarantees the success of the very few, and failure to all the rest ... as you are most certainly doing here.
Time to investigate and discover the truths that are not being discussed in the mainstream .... such as the fact that outside of the 2-3 Trillion handed out to "too big to fails" ... 12 Trillion or more off balance sheet transfers have also taken place between the Federal Reserve and foreign banks and other financial institutions. Being a successful businessman, you should have a clue about what this little back door hidden gem means for the dollar, and ALL OF OUR COLLECTIVE FINANCIAL FUTURES.
Furthermore, the so called "stimulus" funds, which amount to a tiny fraction of the overall heist have not been injected back into the economy ... but have been diverted to purchase hard assets. This stimulus money accounts for the small upticks in the cooked economic indexes which provides the illusion of a "jobless recovery" ... which, in and of itself is nothing more than the mental gymnastics of a deranged mind. Increase in production is the only way to grow an economy, not flooding the system with more funny money created from thin air ... and such increase in actual production would show up in an actual increase in jobs. That has not occurred.
I wish you and others would get with the program ... and help others understand how most everyone are being fleeced right now, so that they are smart enough to band together and say NO MORE.
Keep in mind ... the larger the divide gets between the haves and have nots ... the less secure the haves .. have it.
Mr. Texas, sir, thank you for your thoughtful response. I think what we have here is one's sincerely held belief that is not the same as another's sincerely held belief. Doesn't mean we can't talk; I just don't have anything else to say. I appreciate your extension of the benefit of the doubt. Thanks again for your reply.
Mr. Texas, sir, thank you for your thoughtful response. I think what we have here is one's sincerely held belief that is not the same as another's sincerely held belief. Doesn't mean we can't talk; I just don't have anything else to say. I appreciate your extension of the benefit of the doubt. Thanks again for your reply.
Thank you ... and thank you for validating my opinion of your character ... agreeing to disagree is certainly a sign of good one.
Fact is, you have me rethinking some things myself ... and I would be remiss in not elucidating that here and now for your information, and for all who may have been following our exchange.
Given that I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of one's ability to create their own reality through focussed thoughts, words and deeds ... and that whatever is held in the minds eye firmly and consistently, will ultimately become one's experience ... my "evangelical" approach to spreading the truth may have omitted a very key element that you have brought to my awareness.
However true the criminal activities of the financial gangsters may be ... and however important it may be for the masses to be aware of this in order to allow people the information they need to make conscious, practical decisions, it may be even more important to emphasize that those truths may be far less important to one's personal success than proper thinking and attitude.
And by that I mean that it is also true that vast fortunes have been amassed during extremely difficult financial times ... and that the underhanded shenanigans of some in no way prevents others from attaining their own personal success, unless of course, one believes that it does.
This rather obscure fact of how the universe works is not the common perception , which would explain the great divide between those experiencing success and those that aren't. And even for those fully aware of this underlying mechanism of reality ... it's all too easy to fall into the trap of faulty thinking for which I am guilty of myself.
You, on the other hand have obviously practiced this right-minded thinking, be it consciously or unconsciously, as your results would prove true ... as they say ... "the proof is in the pudding". You serve as a good example for others to follow, and I think it would be very beneficial for many others if you were to expound on your business ... your philosophies ... and the techniques you've found to be of most important value.
And finally, your contribution to the rising tide that lifts all boats should be appreciated as well as your non-confrontational, polite manner of disagreement. That's another great example for others to follow ... a talent that eludes me far too often.
More nonsense about how the big, bad Chinese are going to own us pretty soon, and what a great system they have. Malarky, their GDP, productiveity, and standard of living is far below ours and will be for decades. They have huge social and environmental problems as well. The damn ChiComs need us a hell of a lot more than we need them. If we ever stopped buying their products it would create chaos for them, and they know it, and cannot afford any moves that would disrupt our economy.
I stopped hating Wal-Mart after having to go there 3 times for something that only THEY had, two of which shouldn't have been that hard to find. So, for me, it's about availability.
But the "Wal-Mart" practices that people like to complain so much about happens in many other discount department stores.
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