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I understand that the life of a delivery driver is not all wine and roses. I get it wholly. But the moment a "delivery fee" shows up on my bill, the tip is 0. That's the rule.
Ironically, in the days before those delivery fees, I would usually give the driver 5 bucks - significantly more than the delivery fee. If it was a particularly nasty day in terms of weather (and in Boston, it happens a lot), I would give them upwards of 20. The fee is a complete turn-off, though.
I don't know of a single corporation that mandates delivery fees. These pizza joints are all franchises, which means the franchise owner is the one implementing them. The drivers need to have a talk with their bosses about why the bosses feel it's acceptable to take money out of the drivers' pockets. That's not my job.
But you're doing the same as the OP, you're punishing the employee for the decisions of the corporation. Several of us have stated that drivers do not get all, if any, of the delivery fee, but you still choose to not tip, even knowing this. You not tipping the driver is only making the driver suffer, not the company. Drivers HATE getting stiffed, and let me tell you, they know who tips well and who doesn't tip at all. They remember.
If a driver went to his boss and said he thought it wasn't fair that they aren't getting the entire delivery fee, the boss would just tell him that's company policy and he can get a job elsewhere if he doesn't like it. I have never once heard of a place that pays drivers 100% of the delivery charge. Even if they did, do you honestly think a $1 or $2 delivery charge is enough pay for a driver who delivers an order that is $20 or more?
The delivery charge exists so the restaurant can hire delivery drivers and pay for admin costs, training, minimal hourly wage, mileage, etc. It depends on the place, but like I said, I've never seen or heard of a place that gives the drivers the entire delivery charge. The drivers are tipped for giving good service, getting the food there quickly, ensuring your order is correct, paying for gas and paying to maintain their vehicle. You are screwing the driver, not the restaurant by not tipping for this reason.
Just to give you an example, the first place I worked as a driver in 2004 paid $5.15/hr plus 50 cents a run in the daytime (fewer deliveries, more inside work). At night, we got paid $1.25 a run and that was it. That place had not yet instituted a delivery fee. The next place I worked paid like $4/hour plus 50 cents a run, or something like that. He charged a $1 delivery fee which went up to $1.50 while I was working there. I griped about not getting a raise out of it and was promptly told to be quiet. Another place I worked paid like $5.50/hr or thereabouts, plus a little bit for mileage and I think like 50 cents per run. I wasn't a driver there so I can't be sure. Their delivery fee was $2. Another place I worked had a similar pay structure and their delivery fee was even more b/c the company knows that the customers in that area generally don't tip (it's a poor area of town). The drivers in that situation do get more of the delivery charge than is considered par for the course, but they still do not get all of it.
I will add that delivery drivers are not only responsible for taking your order to you, but ensuring that your order is correct and getting everything together (any sides, drinks, condiments, etc.).
I generally agree with your posts, but I take issue with this one.
A server works at Applebee's. The server makes $2.13 an hour. The server waits on 3 tables per hour and the average ticket is $25. 3 tables X $25 per table = $75. Figure a 15% tip (some people tip good, some tip less) and you get $11.25 + $2.13 = $13.37 per hour
The typical customer at Applebee's would expect to pay $25 + 15% or $28.75 total
The food costs are constant
If the restaurant wanted to keep the same wait staff they would have to offer a salary of around $13.37.
If the wait staff were paid $13.37 and nobody tipped then the wait staff would make $13.37 an hour and the average customer would pay $28.75 just like before.
The restaurant would spend no more since the cost of their product would be the same.
*This ignores some differences due to different taxes (payroll, business income, tip reporting) but the general premise is the same
LOL...no.
You're forgetting that they have to budget for increased payroll costs, which means they would hike the cost of the end product, which the consumer pays. Then add 15% of that and you get your answer.
You're forgetting that they have to budget for increased payroll costs, which means they would hike the cost of the end product, which the consumer pays. Then add 15% of that and you get your answer.
LOL...No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
*This ignores some differences due to different taxes (payroll, business income, tip reporting) but the general premise is the same
A server works at Applebee's. The server makes $2.13 an hour. The server waits on 3 tables per hour and the average ticket is $25. 3 tables X $25 per table = $75. Figure a 15% tip (some people tip good, some tip less) and you get $11.25 + $2.13 = $13.37 per hour
The typical customer at Applebee's would expect to pay $25 + 15% or $28.75 total
The food costs are constant
If the restaurant wanted to keep the same wait staff they would have to offer a salary of around $13.37.
If the wait staff were paid $13.37 and nobody tipped then the wait staff would make $13.37 an hour and the average customer would pay $28.75 just like before.
The restaurant would spend no more since the cost of their product would be the same.
*This ignores some differences due to different taxes (payroll, business income, tip reporting) but the general premise is the same
Andrea is right.
In principle it may seem like a good idea but as a consumer, I want control over my own money when it comes to gratuities. I had a bad lunch experience last summer in Alaska when I took an employee out to celebrate her birthday and I ended up leaving that server nothing, which is rare for me. I would have been pretty pissed if I had been obligated to have her gratuity taken out of the cost of the food.
In principle it may seem like a good idea but as a consumer, I want control over my own money when it comes to gratuities. I had a bad lunch experience last summer in Alaska when I took an employee out to celebrate her birthday and I ended up leaving that server nothing, which is rare for me. I would have been pretty pissed if I had been obligated to have her gratuity taken out of the cost of the food.
I did my math and came to the conclusion that the changes in taxes were basically negligible. If you disagree then I'm sure your computer has a spreadsheet program or calculator program that you can use to prove me wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla
In principle it may seem like a good idea but as a consumer, I want control over my own money when it comes to gratuities. I had a bad lunch experience last summer in Alaska when I took an employee out to celebrate her birthday and I ended up leaving that server nothing, which is rare for me. I would have been pretty pissed if I had been obligated to have her gratuity taken out of the cost of the food.
Yes. We should be able to decide who we want to pay and who we don't want to pay for every service rendered to us.
"There you go. Your new dishwasher is installed"
"Thanks, here's $599 for the unit. But since I had to look at your butt crack for 45 minutes, I'm not going to pay you for installing it"
I did my math and came to the conclusion that the changes in taxes were basically negligible. If you disagree then I'm sure your computer has a spreadsheet program or calculator program that you can use to prove me wrong.
Yes. We should be able to decide who we want to pay and who we don't want to pay for every service rendered to us.
"There you go. Your new dishwasher is installed"
"Thanks, here's $599 for the unit. But since I had to look at your butt crack for 45 minutes, I'm not going to pay you for installing it"
What are you talking about? To pay someone an extra $5/hour is a burden on the employer (I'm talking minimum wage here, not the $13 figure you quoted earlier). Say you have 8 servers on during dinner, for 3 hours each, that's an extra $120 the restaurant has to spend just for one dinner service. I'm not talking about taxes here, but that does come into play, due to an extra 35 cents per hour per employee they pay for SS/Medicare, plus FUTA, SUTA, worker's comp, etc.
What are you talking about? To pay someone an extra $5/hour is a burden on the employer (I'm talking minimum wage here, not the $13 figure you quoted earlier). Say you have 8 servers on during dinner, for 3 hours each, that's an extra $120 the restaurant has to spend just for one dinner service.
That would be paid by the customer. Just as it is now.
Instead of the 5$ being paid as a tip. It would be paid as part of the price of the meal.
If the meal costs $20 plus $4 (20%) in the current system
The meal would cost $24 in the new system
Quote:
The plumber example is a strawman.
It's not a strawman. It's a really good idea. If we get to decide if we want to pay for service in the restaurant industry (not that we get to decide if we want to pay the cooks) we should be able to decide in all industries.
I did my math and came to the conclusion that the changes in taxes were basically negligible. If you disagree then I'm sure your computer has a spreadsheet program or calculator program that you can use to prove me wrong.
Yes. We should be able to decide who we want to pay and who we don't want to pay for every service rendered to us.
"There you go. Your new dishwasher is installed"
"Thanks, here's $599 for the unit. But since I had to look at your butt crack for 45 minutes, I'm not going to pay you for installing it"
There is actually no law that says that you have to tip in a restaurant (and no law that you have to stare at someone's crack for any length of time either). If you feel so strongly about it, simply don't do it. But it's traditional in the restaurant industry to do so.
Again, what you're advocating is taking the decision out of the hands of the patron and would probably have a negative effect on overall service.
I'm sure that Andrea could prove you wrong. Unemployment tax alone would be significant if hourly wages were increased to reflect gratuities.
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