A politically correct Christmas at Trader Joes (9/11, murder, percentage)

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by Sawdustmaker

[b]Got enough Jews in my family to know that Chanukah isn't a big deal. Never has been and never will be.

That is true, which is why I specified "people with kids" - while for those of us without children, it's really no big deal! For Chanukah this year I simply lit the candles at home, no gifts or hoopla of any kind... I didn't even get latkes, which is the one complaint I might have. But I will buy Christmas gifts for my sister's children (they only do gifts on Christmas, a decision they made as an inter-faith family), and for my best friend's daughter. Speaking of which, I'd better get on that!

That's good! I own a retail business and we do HUGE $$ the week before Christmas and up until Christmas Eve. So much so, we're open on Christmas day (just like we are during the day before Thanksgiving, Thanksgiving day and New Year's Eve and Superbowl Sunday and 4th of July and Memorial Day and Labor Day - not everyone plans ahead).

And as much as I enjoyed your post, I really wasn't responding to a post about displays...

Sorry if I missed the point of your post... gets a little confusing after 38 pages of personal rants, LOL. And please don't think I was hoping for the collapse of retail stores, because I am definitely not - just pointing out they're already suffering, and that a lack of "Christmas cheer" probably wouldn't make a difference.

[MsMcQ LV]

Originally Posted by LauraRose64

Great Goddess, I just read all 37 pages of this rant. I think I'll blame this one on my dearest friend, HarborLady, who told me about this mess. LOL

"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Anybody remember this????

It's a poem by Emma Lazarus, written in the early 1900's. It's always been associated with the Statue of Liberty and I believe at one time was inscribed on a plaque near Lady Liberty.

The facts remain that WE, the UNITED STATES ARE made up of "huddled masses".. reguardless if we came here on the Mayflower or if our families came her in the 1700's or the 1800's... we are ALL from somewhere else.. and we ALL believe differently religiously.

ALL those different beliefs are provided for in our BIll of Rights..

I'm Pagan.. but I don't care if you tell me Merry Christmas.. unless or until you get bent out of shape when I tell you Happy Yule.. if that bothers you then Houston, you've got a problem.. a very real problem.. where the outward appearance of your beliefs being threatened seems to threaten your inner hearts beliefs..

I remember being in Political Science class in college.. (shortly after the dinosaurs became extinct LOL) and the professor was talking about our rights under the law.. He said to always remember "your rights END where another persons rights BEGIN" It's not about being politically correct.. it's about being a decent human being and not being greedy, self centered, masses of DNA. It's about rational thought and allowing EVERYONE to have the SAME rights and priviledges.

In my opinon none of this about Christmas.

If you are Christian then Christ should be in your thoughts, hearts and souls all the other days of the years and not just this ONE day.

Does it really matter what Holiday greeting you get? Does it? I really want to know? Do I care what the SA bell ringer said to me? NO I do not.. although I will say mine said Merry Christmas the first time I saw her and Happy Holidays the second time I saw her. (I left some stuff in the store.. story of my life lately... and had to go back and get it) Why should it matter what is said to anybody.. why not just take it for face value.. you were wished happiness..merriness... and that's a rare thing this day and time.

As for me and my family, we did not participate in the whole mess of commercial Christmas, Yule or Chanukkah. I spent the "holiday" money on yarn and my grandchildren will be getting matching scarves, mittens and socks. My mother and aunt recieved shawls and my uncle a very thick pair of wool socks.. ALL made with love knitted in by my own hands. I have 8 people that live in my home including 2 of my grandchildren and trust me they all know when there's a gift to be had.. at any time of year. We celebrated Chanukkah and we will be celebrating Yule on Dec. 22nd. They got the benefit of the stories of the oil lasting 8 days for Chanukkah and on the 22nd, they will get the stories of Yule and the Yule Fairy will come and leave them a gift. Christmas Eve they will be read the story of Christmas in the Bible and Christmas morning they will get up and see what Santa left. They are being reared to respect EVERY religion and educated about the different religions as well. We do ourselves a very poor service when we allow outside forces beyond our control to destroy our serenity, our peace or our love.

All I'm trying to say is this.. see all this with "Gods eyes" without seeing an evil intent, without trying to feel slighted, without any bigotry, without any sense of entitlement. Better yet.. see it though a childs eyes.. a whole day with family and friends.. those are days that they will remember.. will cherish down the road.. when all of us are six feet under.. THEY will remember.. and THEY Are the future.. they will be the ones to spread tolerance and love and joy and happiness.. and while Jesus may be the reason for everybody elses season.. the reason for mine is quite different.. my reason for my season.. is just one word...

HOPE

for a better tomorrow.. unencumbered by hatred, bigotry or intolerance toward anyone..

HOPE

that humanity doesn't destroy itself with it's petty diatribes and juxtapositions, with it's lack of tolerance and kindness for all humanity..

HOPE

that the future is bigger and brighter for my grand children and my great grand children

HOPE

that there will be NO more wars, where innocent young lives are cut short.


Try to remember as you hash about worrying about some greeting that you got or didn't get.. there are small children this very minute that have had to bury their mother or father and for those dear children there will be no peace in their hearts for a very long time.. And please do remember that their parent came home in a flag draped coffin.. remember them and their pain.. seems sort of petty to be griping over a greeting doesn't it?

To all of you.. Happy Holidays.. to one and all.. no matter what you celebrate or what you don't.. may you have joy, peace, love and happiness.. and best of all.. may you never be without HOPE.

This Christian says BEST POST IN THIS ENTIRE LONG THREAD!

[chattypatty]

Originally Posted by MsMcQ LV

Okay, I know my question is completely off topic, but I have to ask it anyway. I've been told by several Jews that, if your mother is a Jew, then you are a Jew by birth, no matter whether you stay with the religion or not. Perhaps it is these, who consider themselves 'Jewish by birth' but don't practice the religion who are celebrating Xmas?

There are definitely Jews, either by maternal lineage or by a former conversion, who do not identify as Jews presently, and who wish to join the world they live in. That may mean celebrating Christmas, and so they do. But no Jew who identifies as a Jew in a serious way would ever celebrate Christmas (okay, I could see an exception as in a Jew who is linked in a relationship to a Christian and "goes along" with Christmas but probably experiences some private discomfort about it.)

[ss20ts]

Originally Posted by Sophiasmommy

Well, except for the fact that historically in America only Christmas is synonymous with lights, trees, ornaments; etc. Can you show me your Flag Day Wreath, or your Presidents Day Ornaments that you hang on your Mothers Day Tree?

I have a tree I decorate for various holidays/times of year. Many places do in fact have lights and ornaments for other holidays other than Christmas. I do it for Valentine's Day - which is a holiday made up by retailers to sell more crap, St Patrick's Day - which is really just an excuse to drink, Easter - a holiday about eggs, candy and buying expensive fancy dresses, Memorial Day, 4th of July and Labor are all the same decorations - Americana, Halloween - which has gone totally nuts and gone crazy on the commercial side since I was a kid, Thanksgiving - a conspiracy by the turkey farmers of North Carolina, and Christmas which has become about the all might dollar and has NOTHING at all to do with Christ in a retail setting. You're kidding yourself if you think it does.

Happy Holidays! That should cover all of them including Lincoln's Birthday which we used to celebrate separately from Washington's. They've both been lumped together and renamed President's Day. I don't see them climbing from their graves pitching a fit.

[annika08]

I really can't imagine a manager saying "we don't want to offend Jews" to a customer. Besides...Sophiasmommy, don't you have anything better to do than going around looking for a reason to complain and harrassing these poor people who most likely have NOTHING to do with corporate policy?

Happy Festivus!

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by chattypatty

There are definitely Jews, either by maternal lineage or by a former conversion, who do not identify as Jews presently, and who wish to join the world they live in. That may mean celebrating Christmas, and so they do. But no Jew who identifies as a Jew in a serious way would ever celebrate Christmas (okay, I could see an exception as in a Jew who is linked in a relationship to a Christian and "goes along" with Christmas but probably experiences some private discomfort about it.)

<----- that.

I know this is a hard concept for some, but Judaism does go deeper than religious beliefs... whether or not you practice Judaism, or even believe in a higher power, if you're born a Jew you will always BE a Jew. How we all choose to self-identify, however, is a totally personal issue. I call myself an Agnostic Jew or sometimes a "cultural Jew," since I follow most of the cultural practices and holidays, but reject the idea of a "man in the sky." So I am definitely still Jewish, and thus it would be hypocritical for me to celebrate Christmas.

Then you have people like my brother, who fully rejected the Jewish faith, and only refers to himself as an Atheist... and our sister is definitely Jewish and raising her kids as Jews, but her husband is what I call a "Christmas Christian" (your typical American who celebrates but is basically an Atheist). My brother just does Christmas for the sake of his girlfriend, and my sister's family celebrates both Jewish & Christian major holidays. So there are many variations of our beliefs, as you can see! But somebody who clearly identifies as Jewish, and is not part of an inter-faith family, should not & does not usually observe Christmas. Make sense?

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by annika08

I really can't imagine a manager saying "we don't want to offend Jews" to a customer.

I mentioned earlier that my old roommate worked at TJs, here in San Francisco... so I got to know the staff pretty well (we lived together for 3 years), and guarantee they wouldn't say that. Unless maybe they were being facetious, which is probably how they would handle a customer like her - then my roommate would come home and tell me all about "this crazy Christian lady who whined about our decorations."

[Eldemila]

Originally Posted by annika08

I really can't imagine a manager saying "we don't want to offend Jews" to a customer. Besides...Sophiasmommy, don't you have anything better to do than going around looking for a reason to complain and harrassing these poor people who most likely have NOTHING to do with corporate policy?

Happy Festivus!

I can't imagine that either, but honestly, you can't put anything past people these days. Maybe he didn't think anyone would say anything, thinking he was "safe" to say that to someone and it would be left at that. And then again, as I have found, people hear what they want to hear, believe what they want to believe and thus, make up what they want to.

You have to try really hard to offend most Jews - we've learned over many years to laugh at ourselves. Maybe it's a survival mode thing.

Here's a little humor about Christmas and Hannukah from

Humor: Differences between Hanukkah and Christmas finally explained! (11/04)

Holiday Distinctions Finally Explained…

1. Christmas is one day, same day every year: December 25. Jews also love December 25th. It's another paid day off work. We go to movies and out for Chinese food and Israeli dancing.

Moderator cut: Please post a link and a "snippet" only, per the Terms of Service


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p9TE8dRPX0

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by Eldemila

You have to try really hard to offend most Jews - we've learned over many years to laugh at ourselves. Maybe it's a survival mode thing.

That is SO true, LOL. People are always afraid of "offending the poor Jews," when we're the last people to be offended by this crap! In case you all haven't noticed, a huge percentage of famous comedians are Jewish... and usually a good portion of the material is making fun of ourselves. I love me a good Jewish joke! Here's a good one for ya:

"The teacher was very curious about how each of her students celebrated Christmas Eve. "Tell me Patrick, what do you do on Christmas Eve?" She asked.

Patrick addressed the class. "Well, Miss, me and my twelve brothers and sisters go to midnight Mass and we sing hymns, then we come home very late and we put mince pies by the back door and hang up our stockings. Then all excited we go to bed and wait for Father Christmas to come with all our toys."

"Very nice Patrick", said the teacher, "Now, Jimmy Brown, what do you do?"

"Well, Miss", replied Jimmy, "Me and my sister go to Church with Mum and Dad and we sing carols and we get home ever so late. We put cookies and milk by the chimney and we hang up our stockings We hardly sleep waiting for Santa Claus to bring our presents"

Remembering there was a Jewish boy in the class and not wanting to leave him out of the discussion, she asked, "Now Isaac Cohen, what do you do on Christmas Eve?"

"Well, Miss, it's the same old thing every year. Dad comes home from the office. We all pile into the Rolls and drive to his toy factory. When we get inside we look at all the empty shelves and sing "What A Friend We Have in Jesus"......then we go to the Bahamas."

[kshe95girl]

^Bahahahahahahha!!!!!!!!!!