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It yet another wonderful tale of stunning success in our Middle Eastern occupations, the CIA's top spy is outed by Pakistan. The Pakistan Intelligence Services or ISI, which have long held split loyalties between local tribes and the west, deny any role in this latest event.
What is more, is that local Pakistani peoples are now beginning to take the United States to court over civilian deaths resulting from US drone attacks. Further pushing the loyalties of Pakistan's military and intelligence services at odds with the United States.
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The subject of Khan's lawsuit against the U.S. — drone missile strikes that target militants but sometimes kill civilians in the tribal areas — is an extremely sensitive topic for most Pakistanis, who regard the drone campaign as a violation of the country's sovereignty.
So lets recap for the week. Harmid Karzai, the corrupt puppet backed by the United States, who heads the nation of Afghanistan is taking billions of US dollars, while at the same time taking bags of money from Iran to (get this) grease the pockets of several of his own cabinet who are opposed to the US and would rather ally with Iran and the Taliban.
Doing a great job boys, be sure not to spend those billions of US tax payer dollars all in one place and try not to kill too many of our soldiers with the money we just gave you, it might look bad in our press.
The US government has stated the war is now really "Afpak" meaning we can't really fight just Afghanistan, we have to include Pakistan because Al Qaeda and the Taliban move across the borders as easy as breathing. Ok, this is nothing new, but bombing at will whenever we wish does kind of tick off the people living there.
In fact, the civilian death toll which is rising in Pakistan, a nation who is supposed to be our ally, who also happens to have nuclear weapons, of who's people we are killing without warning have now decided to take the US to court. So, as the US tax payer bends over to cough up more tax dollars on offense spending, we are now going to end up in court paying for those we killed with the original tax dollars, with yet more tax dollars. Brilliant
To prove the point, they out the CIA's top spy. No big deal, the United States has tons of personnel waiting in long lines to jump at the chance to be the top spy in Pakistan, in fact, I think they are going to audition for the job on a new reality show.
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"There is continuous tension that builds up because of these incidents, and that's not good," Masood said. "We want relations based on mutual confidence, and this is lacking. There are too many small incidents that are creating, if not a rupture in relations, certainly significant problems. And this can only be of benefit to the militants."
Oh, almost forgot, Pakistan shut down supply routes as an added, "I love you America."
Of course there is the expanding war in Yemen, the nearly decade long occupation of Iraq, which is also seeing a rise in violence and of course there are talks now that the 2011 troop withdraws will either have to be delayed or lessened as well, things aren't going as well as hoped.
Speaking of the Marjah offensive, how is that going? Well according to the Obama administration its going flipping fandamntasticalicious! Of course if you read how the war has went in Afghanistan in yearly sequence, it reads much like Iraq, "Conditions in Afghanistan are improving" - 2004, "Conditions in Afghanistan are improving" - 2005, "Conditions in Afghanistan are improving" - 2006, "Conditions in Afghanistan are improving" - 2007, "Conditions in Afghanistan are improving" - 2008, "Conditions in Afghanistan are improving" - 2009, "Conditions in Afghanistan are improving" - 2010, and now, we are going to have to lessen the troop withdraws of 2011 because... "Conditions in Afghanistan are improving" - 2011.
So, the United States, the worlds largest and most awesome military force the human species has ever been witness, who after 10 years of war with a third world country of semi-primitive tribal people has taken 11 months to conclude the Marjah offensive.
Marjah, a town in central Helmand Province that was controlled by the Taliban and helped fuel the insurgency with poppy production, is being patrolled mainly by Afghan police and soldiers
Thats right, a town, it took 11 months for us to conclude a battle to retake a town and the surrounding countryside. According to our own military and the article, "those that decide to come back after winter..." So in other words, the battle has in part concluded because the enemy decided to hole up for the winter, not because they are gone.
the latest review of Afghanistan policy conducted by his staff, those words still sound more like an article of faith than an indisputable fact. Neither Obama's words nor the review's publicly-released text addressed some of the war effort's most daunting problems, including whether Karzai can be a reliable ally, the security of Pakistan's nuclear weapons and material, and ominous gains the Taliban are making in parts of Afghanistan where the U.S. is not currently focused.
Does Whack a Mole ring a bell? The offensive has concluded, the enemy has moved on to less volatile areas and the Taliban is making gains.
All this and after only a mere decade at war.
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But after Obama and Biden left the briefing room and turned the Q&A session over to Clinton, Gates, and Cartwright, reassuring specifics were hard to come by. No one could offer assurances that the Pakistani military would move against enduring al Qaeda-Taliban safe havens like North Waziristan
All this progress after only a mere decade at war.
No Decisive Victory One Year Into Afghan Surge : NPR (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=132031420 - broken link)
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Rahmat told The Associated Press. "Every day that passes, the security situation is getting worse. The government is not in a position to bring peace. Every day, the Taliban are getting more powerful than the government."
All this progress after only a mere decade at war.
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Using Badghis province as a hub, the Taliban also have spread their influence in western Afghanistan and now control several districts
"Progress has not come fast enough, so we will continue to insist to Pakistani leaders that terrorist safe havens within their borders must be dealt with," Mr Obama said at the White House on Thursday while launching his first review of the US strategy for Afghanistan.
What if it doesn't Mr. President, then what? Does the United States plan on invading Pakistan now? What if Pakistan decides to out the United States entirely, what then? Will the United States just march right into Pakistan?
All this progress after only a mere decade at war, just think what we could do with two decades!
In a free society, we are supposed to know the truth. In a society where truth becomes treason, however, we are in big trouble. The truth is that our foreign spying, meddling, and outright military intervention in the post-World War II era has made us less secure, not more. And we have lost countless lives and spent trillions of dollars for our trouble. Too often “official” government lies have provided justification for endless, illegal wars and hundreds of thousands of resulting deaths and casualties.
Pretty much the only voice in government willing to stand before the entire Congressional body and in front of the people of the United States and say this to their faces.
Dealing with Pakistan is tough issue. Had it been easy, somone would have figured it out. Sure, we can withdraw but then we will leave the whole Afpak area to many people who really hate us and history will certainly repeat in form of attacks here. Staying there is not helping much either other. Lot of experts have suggested we think beyond just a military solution but then when Karzai is so corrupt, our "civil' solution also sucks. Karzai has not much influence beyond Kabul anyway. We have a tough, expensive problem with no easy answers.
Dealing with Pakistan is tough issue. Had it been easy, somone would have figured it out. Sure, we can withdraw but then we will leave the whole Afpak area to many people who really hate us and history will certainly repeat in form of attacks here. Staying there is not helping much either other. Lot of experts have suggested we think beyond just a military solution but then when Karzai is so corrupt, our "civil' solution also sucks. Karzai has not much influence beyond Kabul anyway. We have a tough, expensive problem with no easy answers.
There will come a day when the United States has to leave Afghanistan, the only thing left to determine today is how we do this. Do we leave like we left Vietnam or how the Soviets left Afghanistan, with helicopters being pushed overboard, or APC's heading north across the bridge back into Soviet territory with the troops cheering that they are finally leaving the meat grinder? Do we declare victory, even a shallow one and slip out with some shred of dignity.
History has shown us, not to mention Sun Tzu, that in such situations as these, those who have stayed, clinging to the belief that things will improve or get better almost always end up getting their hats handed to them. We already have and our solution remains, more troops, more money, more intervention, more more more more. Which like Vietnam ended up making things worse worse worse worse, so what does the United States do, it finds the biggest war disaster in its history and repeats it near verbatim.
I have to question to argument however that by leaving it will lead to instability and potential chaos, as this is what we already have in abundance. Our control of the situation on a whole is at best illusionary as we, like the Karzai government aren't much more than the mayor's of Kabul, as once you enter Afghanistan's vast tribal areas, the Taliban are gaining after 10 years of war.
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Originally Posted by whatyousay
We need to get the hell out of the ME and carpet bomb them all.
I'm all for the first part but I'm not entirely sure how much the second part will accomplish. Using 100,000 dollar bombs flown in billion dollar aircraft, using tens of thousands of dollars worth of fuel to blow up 100 dollar tents and turn big rocks into smaller rocks in a nation that isn't much above tribe in the neolithic age.
We need to get the hell out of the ME and carpet bomb them all.
Hope you enjoy stitching your own tennis shoes and building your own iPhones from scratch, because you won't be getting them from China anymore if you try a scorched earth policy with the ME.
Hope you enjoy stitching your own tennis shoes and building your own iPhones from scratch, because you won't be getting them from China anymore if you try a scorched earth policy with the ME.
Speaking of China... To add more troubles to an already near impossible situation.
While the U.S. has poured billions of dollars into Pakistan to assist in combating terrorist groups, Pakistan's military and civilian leaders remain committed to retaining a close alliance with China. "Let's stand together, with a new confidence, and begin a new era of progress and prosperity, by jointly confronting all challenges," Wen said in his speech on Sunday. To the applause of Pakistan's ruling and opposition politicians, the Chinese continued that "China and Pakistan are all-weather strategic partners and share the sorrows and joys of each other as close brothers."
When is the last time you heard the government of Pakistan refer to the United States as a "brother" or "all-weather strategic partner"?
Perhaps we should send them a few billion dollars more, that always works.
Hope you enjoy stitching your own tennis shoes and building your own iPhones from scratch, because you won't be getting them from China anymore if you try a scorched earth policy with the ME.
It's high time we stop importing crap from China anyways.
There will come a day when the United States has to leave Afghanistan, the only thing left to determine today is how we do this. Do we leave like we left Vietnam or how the Soviets left Afghanistan, with helicopters being pushed overboard, or APC's heading north across the bridge back into Soviet territory with the troops cheering that they are finally leaving the meat grinder? Do we declare victory, even a shallow one and slip out with some shred of dignity.
History has shown us, not to mention Sun Tzu, that in such situations as these, those who have stayed, clinging to the belief that things will improve or get better almost always end up getting their hats handed to them. We already have and our solution remains, more troops, more money, more intervention, more more more more. Which like Vietnam ended up making things worse worse worse worse, so what does the United States do, it finds the biggest war disaster in its history and repeats it near verbatim. ,,,.
The when of leaving will depend on internal appetite for wars and our economy. If there is another 9-11-like incident pointing to AfPak, I bet we will add another decade to our stay. Or, at least increase the intensity of our involvement substantially. We are a nation driven by ego - we will pay whatever it takes to extract revenge. Other nations (UK, Spain, India, etc) also have terrorist attacks but they do not react like we do - also probably because they do not have the military or financial means. Someone need to sit back and take an honest practical look at the price (lives, $s) we have paid till now after 9-11.
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Originally Posted by TnHilltopper
I have to question to argument however that by leaving it will lead to instability and potential chaos, as this is what we already have in abundance. Our control of the situation on a whole is at best illusionary as we, like the Karzai government aren't much more than the mayor's of Kabul, as once you enter Afghanistan's vast tribal areas, the Taliban are gaining after 10 years of war.
,,,.
Therein lies the rub as the next question is "how much worse can it get once we leave?". Agree our control is not much but it still prevents, for example, people boarding planes in Kabul to come to the US via other countries. Kabul may be a small part of Afghanistan, but is still important for us to control. Without some of our tentacles into any central government, things will go downhill in a hurry there, and eventually, impact us here. To me, our presence in AfPak region is way more important than the Iraqi war - no comparision. Also noticable is our handling of Saudis with kid gloves as most of the money funding various cells originates there.
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Originally Posted by TnHilltopper
Speaking of China... To add more troubles to an already near impossible situation.
When is the last time you heard the government of Pakistan refer to the United States as a "brother" or "all-weather strategic partner"?
Perhaps we should send them a few billion dollars more, that always works.
Some of this has to do with local geo-politics. China and Pakistan are good friends. That relationship tends to counter the Russian/Indian friendship. Chinese PM was in India a few days ago and refused to include any reference to Pakistan about the Mumbai attacks. Indians refused to include Tibet / Taiwan reference that China wanted. While Pakistanis worry about India, Indians worry about Chinese. Chinese do not want US influence to spread more in middle east / S Asia whereas Japanese and US do not want Chinese influence to spread with China's new emphasis on defense. It is all a politics as usual - only now stakes are much higher.
The when of leaving will depend on internal appetite for wars and our economy. If there is another 9-11-like incident pointing to AfPak, I bet we will add another decade to our stay. Or, at least increase the intensity of our involvement substantially. We are a nation driven by ego - we will pay whatever it takes to extract revenge. Other nations (UK, Spain, India, etc) also have terrorist attacks but they do not react like we do - probably because they do not have the military or financial means.
So where do we stand? As Obama said, "We are on track to achieve our goals." But we are on track to achieve them some time after 2015, when the U.S. forces in Afghanistan will be in their 15th year of the war
"some time AFTER 2015" we will be on track to achieve our goals. So it is going to take 15+ years to get on track to achieve our goals? Ok, well maybe we just have really lofty goals, so what are our goals Mr. President Obama.
(from the same article)
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He insisted, as he has before, that U.S. goals in Afghanistan are limited to denying a haven to Al Qaeda. "It's not nation-building," he said
So 10 years later, billions of dollars spent, countless lives and the goal of the worlds most awesome superpower is to "deny a haven to Al Qaeda" in Afghanistan or (afpak). Am I the only person who thinks that is a bit delusional? Its not like Afghanistan is the size of Rhode Island, its huge, its rugged, and its populated with millions of people of which most hate our guts, including the security forces and intelligence agencies.
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Therein lies the rub as the next question is "how much worse can it get once we leave?". Agree our control is not much but it still prevents, for example, people boarding planes in Kabul to come to the US via other countries. Kabul may be a small part of Afghanistan, but is still important for us to control. Without some of our tentacles into any central government, things will go downhill in a hurry there, and eventually, impact us here. To me, our presence in AfPak region is way more important than the Iraqi war - no comparision. Also noticable is our handling of Saudis with kid gloves as most of the money funding various cells originates there.
It is hard to gage just how much we actually have control over, as after all the US supported leader of this country which has almost no government beyond the walls of Kabul, is a corrupt two faced con man who while taking billions of American tax payer dollars is also taking bags of money from Iran to pay off those members of his own government who are opposed to the US occupation of their country. This isn't even a secret, this is day to day front page news in Afghanistan.
As you point out, there is that little issue with the Saud's, not to mention Yemen, UAE, Iraq, etc... etc... because in truth, there isn't a place within the entirety of the Middle East that doesn't have at least some population of people willing to strap a bomb on and head for America. All while many are being funded covertly by governments like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc... as much as the Shiite and Sunni might hate each other, they hate the US occupation of their lands even more.
How much do we continue to expand the war, how much longer do we continue to pursue the current strategy? Look at the Israel-Palestinian issue and how long that has been going on. Then look at the US treasury and economy and ask, how much longer can we afford to fund all this and if doing so is reducing the money we should be spending to protect the nation, not our empire.
Last edited by TnHilltopper; 12-19-2010 at 10:22 AM..
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