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Old 08-07-2012, 12:25 AM
 
4,042 posts, read 3,537,128 times
Reputation: 1968

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
The bolded sounds like conservative values to me - liberals don't exactly have a reputation for living within their means, while liberals often pay lip service to helping the poor - conservatives actually do it every day - they just don't broadcast it like the hyocrites that Jesus warned people to not be like, and I think that you are confusing profit for greed - there is nothing wrong with wanting to earn more money then what you started with.

As for abortion - could you quote me where Jesus ever said anything about abortion? This is another common strawman - pro-abortionists like to paint pro-life people as religiously motivated(specifically - influenced by the Bible) so they can avoid the truth that abortion is universally wrong - and its wrongness transcends religion, culture, and geography. I am pro-life - and can't cite anything in the Bible that led me to this position - because it didn't happen - and there is nothing in the Bible that teaches against abortion. Abortion is wrong - period.

Anyways - when you find some verses that illustrates Jesus's abortion views - just let me know. Jesus didn't have to mention abortion because people understood that it was inherently evil.

Yeah, there's some scripture that is about the womb, hence about abortion for obvious reasons. Jesus spoke for 33yrs and yet we have so few words of His recorded that He could have said them in just one hour of His life! However, He clearly said that He didn't come to earth to get rid of even one point of the Old Testament Law, "but to fulfill it."

Here's scripture about the womb/abortion.


"Before I was born the LORD called me; from my birth he has made mention of my name...and now the LORD says--he who formed me in the womb to be his servant..."- Isaiah 49:1


"The word of the LORD came to me, saying, ‘Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations’" -Jeremiah 1:4-5
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:30 AM
 
441 posts, read 502,304 times
Reputation: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by cometclear View Post
What's so striking is how many self-described "conservative Christians" there are who not only make no effort to implement the most crucial teachings of Jesus, specifically the Sermon on the Mount, in their lives, but advocate values that are precisely the opposite in the political realm. I'm speaking specifically of their advocacy precisely against loving our enemies, turning the other cheek, treating all people as brothers and sisters and so on. By no stretch of the imagination are these folks "Christians." You cannot claim membership in a group when you make no effort to adhere to the fundamental principles. It's almost as if their zealotry with regards to fetuses and queers is meant to compensate for their woeful shortcomings in the important areas of Christian living. They pick and choose the portions of Scripture that suit their purposes and assumptions, ignore the ones that don't and then, quite ironically, disparage that minority of Christians who openly advocate and practice peaceful lives according to the principles mentioned above. Have any of you listened to these good Christians sneer at social justice and loving your enemies and opposing warmongering and opposition to needless killing by the state? It's remarkable.

But they are passionate about gays doing naughty things and dirty movies and sex without consequences. You know, all the things God spends time worrying most about.
Right-wing Christian fundamentalists are not vaguely Christian. Christ was a leftie - an extreme leftie. Fundamentalists are not religious, they are sectarian exhibitionists. Their Bible-thumping narcissism ("look at me! look at me! I'm going to heaven and you're not!") does not have anything in common with Christ's teachings.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,094 posts, read 26,072,044 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnysee View Post
Yeah, there's some scripture that is about the womb, hence about abortion for obvious reasons. Jesus spoke for 33yrs and yet we have so few words of His recorded that He could have said them in just one hour of His life! However, He clearly said that He didn't come to earth to get rid of even one point of the Old Testament Law, "but to fulfill it."

Here's scripture about the womb/abortion.


"Before I was born the LORD called me; from my birth he has made mention of my name...and now the LORD says--he who formed me in the womb to be his servant..."- Isaiah 49:1


"The word of the LORD came to me, saying, ‘Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations’" -Jeremiah 1:4-5
Hmnn - those verses do make life in the womb seem to be rather valuable.

Anyways - my question was more about Tempest justifying the claim that Jesus had clear views on abortion. I think the OP is just operating off of assumptions and doesn't really know or care that Jesus never spoke about abortion(though I believe that he would have been pro-life). Its just another round of the old liberal game of "put everyone in a box" so that it is easier to attack them.

Its so transparent - that it fails everytime.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:35 AM
 
510 posts, read 431,749 times
Reputation: 440
Simple answer: Because it's obvious to everyone(except liberals?) that liberals loath Christians. Why associate with people who think you are only slightly less-evil than a neo-Nazi?

Complex answer: Because Jesus never said that the government should forceably redistribute wealth from people for the good of the community. Jesus said 'pay your taxes' but he wasn't a socialist. Christianity is more about voluntary charity and having the freedom to make the choice to do the right thing.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:47 AM
 
441 posts, read 502,304 times
Reputation: 290
Some of us are Christians AND liberals - we're just not sectarians who mistake bigotry for piety.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:51 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,215 posts, read 11,382,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Rank-n-file Fundamentalist Christians and Republicans share a common, core constitution - unthinking obedience to authority.

Apparently, not too many people recall that when the libertarian movement emerged from "conservative" ranks, it was the Christian Evangelicals who were most offended.

And that that movement based much of its thinkng upon the philosophical teachings of Ayn Rand who, while she personally professed atheism, regarged religion as strictly a private matter.
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:28 AM
 
Location: Va. Beach
6,391 posts, read 5,179,407 times
Reputation: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by TempesT68 View Post
This is a phenomenon I've never really understood is why those that are heavily christian, are also heavily republicans. If you really think about it besides abortion views, Jesus was a liberal. Not a leftest republican or democrat, but a full-blown green party tree hugging flaming liberal.
The teachings are about living frugally, to help the poor, to only live with what you need and give your unneeded wealth away. To open your doors to the needy and that greed is evil. Even how Jesus is depicted in looking, long hair, beard, sandals, pretty much exactly like hippies of the 60's.
It just seems to make sense that if you are a true follower of the bible, you would be a hardcore liberal, not a conservative.
Probably the most inaccurate thing I have read today!

Would you say there are a LOT of black churches? Do you think the people who go to them are heavily republican?
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:34 AM
 
441 posts, read 502,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkatt View Post
Probably the most inaccurate thing I have read today!

Would you say there are a LOT of black churches? Do you think the people who go to them are heavily republican?
You guys, I don't want to upset you or anything, but only liberal Christians who follow Christ's teachings and love their fellow man - and woman - will go to heaven.

However, I would point out - given the tone of the threads on this forum - you will enjoy hell, as Mark Twain said, for the conversation, because most of the conversations on here are more inspired by El Diablo than by Jesus Christ.
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:56 PM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,214,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
When I became a republican, it didn't used to be like that. Many R's used to actually take a fairly moderate stand on social issues, and there was room for diversity. There's a really interesting concept among some theologians--that there are actually two versions of Christianity now that really don't have much in common, except that they both claim Jesus as savior, and they both use the name Christianity. According to these folks, they're different enough that they qualify as different religions, not just different Christian denominations--the "rule of law" folks who see the bible as a rule book, and the "rule of love" folks who focus on Christ's message of love and salvation.

The R party has moved far right, and there's no room left for moderates--we're what they call Rhinos. I can't tell you the number of times I've been called a Commie on this board, and I'm about as much of a capitalist as it gets. It makes sense that people with a more extreme view of faith would be drawn to the R party now. If you're the fear centered, "God is going to get you if you step out of line" and the "bible is a rule book" type where every word is taken as black and white and literal, it makes sense that you would be a social conservative. They see the bible as literal--black and white--and they tend to view the world that way too. Those folks have landed with the R's.

The rest of us--the ones who see Christianity more from the stand point of following Christ's teachings of love and salvation, and the old testament as parable to teach us moral lessons, but interpreted through the times in which the parables were told, don't fit with the R's anymore--most are dems or independents. Dem's and independents tend to see the world as different shades of grey--that things in life are very rarely black and white, and that you have to understand the whole story in it's entire context to find the truth. That's how we look at our faith as well--that we're on a journey to understand and live the message of Christ, and to become more spiritual people. We take Christ's word literally, but the rest is context to help us understand more deeply.
This is a lovely post, it shows intelligence and thought as well as faith, I'm not a Christian, but I have deep respect for this poster and his religion. Nobody HATES Christians, there is no "war on Christianity," what a lot of people hate is when people use religion to justify ideas that show little thought, or intelligence, or when people try to bring their religion into government at the expense of people who have different beliefs, but even in those cases there is no "hatred of Christianity", that idea is just people trying to create division between Americans as a way to push their own agenda.

Unfortunately large number of Americans are falling for this "us vs them crap" that keeps the average American too busy, and angry at the wrong people to understand how our country is being bought by corporations and those with enough money to buy legislation that benefits them. Anytime I read something as stupid as "all conservatives do this, all liberals do that, I want to cry at the lack of thought behind those statements, it's utter nonsense.

Last edited by detshen; 08-07-2012 at 05:05 PM..
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
38,335 posts, read 22,331,330 times
Reputation: 13976
Quote:
Originally Posted by TempesT68 View Post
This is a phenomenon I've never really understood is why those that are heavily christian, are also heavily republicans. If you really think about it besides abortion views, Jesus was a liberal. Not a leftest republican or democrat, but a full-blown green party tree hugging flaming liberal.
The teachings are about living frugally, to help the poor, to only live with what you need and give your unneeded wealth away. To open your doors to the needy and that greed is evil. Even how Jesus is depicted in looking, long hair, beard, sandals, pretty much exactly like hippies of the 60's.
It just seems to make sense that if you are a true follower of the bible, you would be a hardcore liberal, not a conservative.
Modern day liberalism is tyranny and theft by the political elite, Jesus was not big into theft and tyranny.
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