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Old 08-08-2012, 12:36 AM
 
5,261 posts, read 4,166,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
Jesus believed in charity not forced re-distribution of wealth. Also liberalism in general promotes the destruction of Christian values. For example, Look how liberals have destroyed the institution of marriage with their handouts to mothers who have out-of-wedlock children.
I don't believe Jesus ever weighed in on "forced redistribution of wealth," but if you can point me towards the place in the New Testament where he addressed that, I'm willing to stand corrected. I would humbly submit that the social safety net is a codification of the moral obligation to help the weakest and that it was inevitable to materialize in an overwhelmingly Christian nation. BTW, why do you think the social safety net appeared in the United States?
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,296 posts, read 121,054,432 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by cometclear View Post
Without question, you will find higher percentages of church-goers in rural areas of Minnesota than in the Twin Cities. It is the same in Wisconsin and other Great Lakes states.
Not entirely true according to that map. Some rural areas have higher percentages than the TC, some have the same, and some have fewer. And the percentage in the TC is pretty high as a stand alone statement.
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:43 AM
 
14,292 posts, read 9,704,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TempesT68 View Post
This is a phenomenon I've never really understood is why those that are heavily christian, are also heavily republicans. If you really think about it besides abortion views, Jesus was a liberal. Not a leftest republican or democrat, but a full-blown green party tree hugging flaming liberal.
The teachings are about living frugally, to help the poor, to only live with what you need and give your unneeded wealth away. To open your doors to the needy and that greed is evil. Even how Jesus is depicted in looking, long hair, beard, sandals, pretty much exactly like hippies of the 60's.
It just seems to make sense that if you are a true follower of the bible, you would be a hardcore liberal, not a conservative.
Then you did not wander around the church parking lots in 2008 and see all the Obama '08 bumper stickers. More Christians voted for Obama, so all you are doing is posting a thread that mirrors your perceived stereotype.

BTW, the majority of Christians won't be voting for Obama this time around, he has angered them too much with his gay marriage stance, his contraception mandate from the HHS and hie ineptitude in turning the poor economy around and not creating a positive environment for job creation, and the $5+ trillion in new debt he has accumulated.
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Old 08-29-2012, 01:25 PM
 
Location: california
7,331 posts, read 6,959,632 times
Reputation: 9282
Fact is you all are going to vote to what ever field will promise you the greater advantage.
The problem we have is ,like Obama he said anything that would get his approval but he proved and the evidence proved He lied.
Now He is not the fist person to be doing this and not the last either.
The democrats knew he was not a citizen and that he is marksist, and that works to their ajenda ,being black simply swong the poorer peoples vote because he was promising change, but not telling what the change would be, much like Hitler.
There is a strong push in congress to dismantle the constitution giving them even more power over the people, jailing folks with out due process, it's going on right now.
Even some places forbid saying any thing against the president, which countrodicts the first ammendment.
Places like this will be banned ,mark my word.
So what you are going to have to do,is decide who's ajenda you are going to support.
As if voting mattered .
One last note to women and any other group .
Obama's ajenda is definately musalm ,and if you are wise enough to do your homework and present day life in muslam countries , that is the ajenda being establishe here.
At the current rate of muslam population growth , they will out vote those here presently.
Just keep that in mind, they are not going to compromise long with out being presured to their roots.
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Maryland
629 posts, read 948,332 times
Reputation: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
Republican party is more family friendly. Pro-life and pro-independent people. By the way Jesus never said we should live off the government, in fact He wanted us to separate from the government---give to God what belonged to God and to government what belonged to government (many today think more and more of out things belong to the government.) Those who did not work would not eat kind of thing. St. Paul wrote that to Christians in his letters.
Jesus never said we should live off the government, but he wasn't exactly in a position where the government was offering any services to the population of Galilee and Judea but the sword of the Pax Romana.

The rule St. Paul wrote--“The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat”--(bold mine) was intended for a situation where early Christians essentially lived communally. People sold their goods and held them in common, had widows on the rolls, etc. It was more or less a religious commune, but like most small communes, it had a freeloader problem (young widows being one of them -- see I Tim. 5).

My answer to the question in the OP is that people who tend to be conventionally religious tend to subscribe to conventional morality, both of which the current GOP panders to (I think the political class usually exploits religious people rather than actually being genuinely religious). I do think the morality of Jesus himslef is more of a subversive morality, but the Christian (and Jewish) Bible encompasses both kinds of morality. People grab on to the parts of the Bible that reflect their own values.

I speak here as a regular church-goer who is also a Democrat...
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:16 PM
 
Location: The D-M-V area
13,691 posts, read 18,495,537 times
Reputation: 9596
Quote:
Originally Posted by TempesT68 View Post
This is a phenomenon I've never really understood is why those that are heavily christian, are also heavily republicans. If you really think about it besides abortion views, Jesus was a liberal. Not a leftest republican or democrat, but a full-blown green party tree hugging flaming liberal.
The teachings are about living frugally, to help the poor, to only live with what you need and give your unneeded wealth away. To open your doors to the needy and that greed is evil. Even how Jesus is depicted in looking, long hair, beard, sandals, pretty much exactly like hippies of the 60's.
It just seems to make sense that if you are a true follower of the bible, you would be a hardcore liberal, not a conservative.
Explain the black Christians who are overwhelmingly democrat...
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Maryland
629 posts, read 948,332 times
Reputation: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem View Post
Explain the black Christians who are overwhelmingly democrat...
They don't count, at least not as evangelical Christians, because they aren't Republican

Another Look at Evangelicals in America Today

Quote:
Black Americans are among the most religious groups in America. They are also, for the most part, Protestant Christians. Therefore, it is not surprising to find that 70% of blacks in the combined aggregate sample of surveys say they are evangelical or born again. But for most practical, analytic purposes, including blacks in the mix of those defined as evangelical makes little sense. Data show that blacks are overwhelmingly Democratic in political orientation regardless of their religion. At least 9 in 10 blacks vote for the Democratic candidate for president each election. So, the inclusion of blacks in a group of "evangelicals" being defined for analytic reasons obscures analysis to the degree that the purpose of defining the group is to measure their influence on political life in particular. Thus, while it may be reasonable to look at black evangelicals in some situations and for some purposes, for the current purposes evangelicals will be defined as only whites.
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:29 PM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,215,320 times
Reputation: 7000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joykins View Post
Jesus never said we should live off the government, but he wasn't exactly in a position where the government was offering any services to the population of Galilee and Judea but the sword of the Pax Romana.

The rule St. Paul wrote--“The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat”--(bold mine) was intended for a situation where early Christians essentially lived communally. People sold their goods and held them in common, had widows on the rolls, etc. It was more or less a religious commune, but like most small communes, it had a freeloader problem (young widows being one of them -- see I Tim. 5).

My answer to the question in the OP is that people who tend to be conventionally religious tend to subscribe to conventional morality, both of which the current GOP panders to (I think the political class usually exploits religious people rather than actually being genuinely religious). I do think the morality of Jesus himslef is more of a subversive morality, but the Christian (and Jewish) Bible encompasses both kinds of morality. People grab on to the parts of the Bible that reflect their own values.

I speak here as a regular church-goer who is also a Democrat...
The larger agenda for most Republican politicians is to protect the very wealthy, and corporate interests, but the wealthy are such a small percentage of the population, they simply don't have enough votes, so politicians pander to religious people, and pretend to actually care about their needs in order to get their votes.
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Maryland
629 posts, read 948,332 times
Reputation: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen View Post
No, Harborlady did not fail. The point is that the idea that conservatives give more to charity is a statistic that some might figure by tax deductions. No one really knows if conservatives actually give more, or if they just took more deductions (or lied) or bragged more in a survey. Statistics don't really mean much. I don't see how bragging that conservatives give more money to charity is behavior Christ would approve of, it's prideful, and a cheap (no pun intended) way to insult others, which is another thing that doesn't seem very Christian to me. I don't feel the need to tell anyone how much time or money I give to charity, I am liberal in many ways, and I believe deeply in charity for it's own sake not to impress people.

Giving money isn't really associating with people in a "lower position" I believe Jesus actually spent time with people, he didn't give money, he actually spoke to them and helped them with his own hands. Giving money can be a way of bragging about how Christian you are while not actually experiencing, or understanding people who are struggling.
I read somewhere that when you eliminate religious people's giving to their own churches, the difference between Republican/Democrat (recorded) charitable giving more or less disappears. The religious people giving a lot to their own churches tend to aggregate on the Republican side, right now, although this wasn't always the case.
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Maryland
629 posts, read 948,332 times
Reputation: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCCB View Post
Jesus's dad was a successful small businessman as a carpenter.
Assuming you're speaking of Joseph, and not God the Father, that doesn't make him a "successful small businessman." It just made him a carpenter. The capitalist system didn't even exist back then. Properly speaking, he was an artisan, not a small businessman.
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