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I dont know really, but bringing his religion into it certainly derailed any chance of rational logical debate. Religion has no place in rights or legislation in the USA.
There was no religious intent.
My point is that the Holocaust is a huge part of Jewish history. They were considered subhuman. They were considered the "right people" to exterminate.
I'm not going to bomb abortion clinics or anything like that - those people are just as bad as the abortionists...I mean obviously I can't stop this from happening, and I'm not going to get personally involved because in that sense it is their business. I will still support laws that make it illegal as an 'on-demand' procedure, and I have the right to call it murder in principle. I am fully aware that say a 24 year old like myself is more aware and probably loses more by being killed, but that doesn't change the fact it's still killing somebody.
Its killing who? People are human beings that have been born, we have names, SS#'s etc. I do not believe & science agrees, that a fetus is a human being. It will become one but is not one at conception.
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I strongly believe those people SHOULDN'T be doing this to themselves and their babies because it's totally messing with nature and is grossly cruel. Yes, I believe any responsible government that makes killing a unlawful should make ALL killing of human beings unlawful.
We do make the unjustified killing of all human beings illegal.
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Yes, well they don't breathe air, but they still breathe. And they have a beating heart, a pulse...Your comments about a miscarriage are ridiculous. Obviously that was an accident and nothing to do with premeditated killing.
Ok, how about a charge of unintentional homicide? Negligent homicide perhaps? People go to jail for accidental killings all the time.
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Yes Americans aren't the guardians of the world...I believe Iraq was a bit of a farce myself. Yet I also believe if nobody does anything injustice runs rife.
Iraq was justified until we found Saddam, after that its all been political damage control. We need to take care of ourselves not the world, injustice runs rampant right here, though in different ways. We violate peoples civil rights & liberty in many ways, much too many to waste time & effort trying to change other places against their will. If Africans want to kill each other so be it.
My point is that the Holocaust is a huge part of Jewish history. They were considered subhuman. They were considered the "right people" to exterminate.
Sorry to be less than clear in my post.
Ok I understand now & agree to a point. Theres a huge difference though between indiscriminate killing of living breathing people & the occasional termination of a pregnancy.
Ok I understand now & agree to a point. Theres a huge difference though between indiscriminate killing of living breathing people & the occasional termination of a pregnancy.
Not to argue, but 30 million + killed is occasional?
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,029,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker
Its killing who? People are human beings that have been born, we have names, SS#'s etc. I do not believe & science agrees, that a fetus is a human being. It will become one but is not one at conception.
We do make the unjustified killing of all human beings illegal.
Ok, how about a charge of unintentional homicide? Negligent homicide perhaps? People go to jail for accidental killings all the time.
Iraq was justified until we found Saddam, after that its all been political damage control. We need to take care of ourselves not the world, injustice runs rampant right here, though in different ways. We violate peoples civil rights & liberty in many ways, much too many to waste time & effort trying to change other places against their will. If Africans want to kill each other so be it.
You define human beings as someone who is born to justify abortion. The only way you can justify abortion is to call the unborn 'non-persons' persona non grata. That's what the Nazis considered Jews, or the Europeans the Aborigines. It makes killing a little more...guilt free.
You can spin it any way you want to, but when you see dismembered and mutilated HUMAN body parts how can you coolly say they're not human? Life definitely has well and truly begun. You're desensitized yourself and hardening your heart so you won't have to own up to the obvious fact abortion is killing of a HUMAN BEING.
Abortion is a service that abortionists provide. Nobody was born with the ability to spontaneously abort or miscarry their fetus. Around the world throughout history women have lived and died knowing that pregnancy is as inevitable as the sun rising and setting each morning.
Around the world thruout history women have tried many ways to abort pregnancies, sometimes having the kid & leaving it to die. In the animal world it happens as well, if a mother realizes a child is too small or sicly she will abandon it, if she can only feed 2 & theres 3 one will be left to die. I like our way better.
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Abortion is a modern invention that is often under the guise of a 'medical procedure' much like removing a tumour.
Its not as modern as you might want to think. The biggest difference between modern abortions & those of the past is that today the fetus is usually in very early development & the mother lives.
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The only problem is while the abortionists thinks he is 'curing' someone, he is destroying the life of another.
In your opinion, but obviously not in the opinion of most of us.
You define human beings as someone who is born to justify abortion. The only way you can justify abortion is to call the unborn 'non-persons' persona non grata. That's what the Nazis considered Jews, or the Europeans the Aborigines. It makes killing a little more...guilt free.
You can spin it any way you want to, but when you see dismembered and mutilated HUMAN body parts how can you coolly say they're not human? Life definitely has well and truly begun. You're desensitized yourself and hardening your heart so you won't have to own up to the obvious fact abortion is killing of a HUMAN BEING.
Nah, the fact is that you need to twist & dramatize to make your point because it doesn't hold water by itself.
Human beings are just that, a fetus is just that. When you can point to a fetus strutting down the street I'll call it a human being. Havent you ever wondered why we have a seperate name for fetus & baby?
Comparing racial cleansing to abortion is ridiculous. Unless the abortions are forced and the only ones forcing anything are the pro lifers.
Stress hormones because she's unhappy about the pregnancy making a baby retarded? That's the best you've got?
I see stacking the deck against an already unwanted child and forcing a woman against her will to carry an unwanted pregnancy, as far more heinous than aborting a fetus between 6 to 12 weeks (which is when the majority of abortions are performed)
Perhaps you might want to do some research on fetal development and pregnancy.
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Originally Posted by Trimac20
Yes, if that's how you see it a woman deserves to be 'punished' by being a responsible adult and facing up to the consequences. You make your bed, now lie in it.
Unfortunately it would not just be the woman who is "punished". Often it's the unwanted children as well. Especially if they have health problems and end up unwanted except by foster carers who use them as a cash cows while abusing them. In my job, I see unwanted and severely abused children all the time. Frankly I wouldn't wish that start to "life" on anyone.
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Originally Posted by Trimac20
You might think I'm just regurgitating pro-life propaganda, but it's actually very common for women to regret their decision after they've had the abortion. The depression and grief they feel for killing something is a bit more than the depression they feel because they look a little fat, their parents will disapprove, or they get a little morning sickness...And I can't blame them! I'm not sure some of them truly understand what they're doing.
Yes I think you are regurgitating pro-life propaganda. "look a little fat", "get a little morning sickness"??? Good grief, you have no idea about pregnancy.
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Originally Posted by Trimac20
The woman should refuse to even do the deed unless he's at the very least wearing a condom. Don't try to mess with nature, or it'll mess with you. As for miscarriages and stuff, that's nature's way of saying something is wrong with the mother/baby (not a healthy developing baby).
The woman should refuse to do the deed? Why aren't you saying "men should refrain from "doing the deed" as well? Your posts come across as quite sexist.
How is wearing a condom and using contraceptives NOT messing with nature?
Plenty of babies are not aborted by "nature" and are born with severe defects, not enough to kill them, but enough to make their lives a living hell. Is that God or Nature's way of saying innocent babies deserve this sort of suffering?
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,029,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker
Around the world thruout history women have tried many ways to abort pregnancies, sometimes having the kid & leaving it to die. In the animal world it happens as well, if a mother realizes a child is too small or sicly she will abandon it, if she can only feed 2 & theres 3 one will be left to die. I like our way better.
Its not as modern as you might want to think. The biggest difference between modern abortions & those of the past is that today the fetus is usually in very early development & the mother lives.
In your opinion, but obviously not in the opinion of most of us.
Just because it's ancient did it too doesn't make it right (I still believe it's academics exaggerating it) Some ancients also practiced infanticide and human sacrifice. I'm glad we got rid of that. Yet there are some things we didn't get rid of.
Unless it was life-threatening, those women who risked their lives to have crude late-term abortions were probably crazy in one way or another.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,029,399 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax
I see stacking the deck against an already unwanted child and forcing a woman against her will to carry an unwanted pregnancy, as far more heinous than aborting a fetus between 6 to 12 weeks (which is when the majority of abortions are performed)
Perhaps you might want to do some research on fetal development and pregnancy.
Unfortunately it would not just be the woman who is "punished". Often it's the unwanted children as well. Especially if they have health problems and end up unwanted except by foster carers who use them as a cash cows while abusing them. In my job, I see unwanted and severely abused children all the time. Frankly I wouldn't wish that start to "life" on anyone.
Yes I think you are regurgitating pro-life propaganda. "look a little fat", "get a little morning sickness"??? Good grief, you have no idea about pregnancy.
The woman should refuse to do the deed? Why aren't you saying "men should refrain from "doing the deed" as well? Your posts come across as quite sexist.
How is wearing a condom and using contraceptives NOT messing with nature?
Plenty of babies are not aborted by "nature" and are born with severe defects, not enough to kill them, but enough to make their lives a living hell. Is that God or Nature's way of saying innocent babies deserve this sort of suffering?
Show a classroom full of these unwanted foster kids photos of heads and arms and legs and hands of fetuses thrown in the dustbin of some abortion clinic. Now tell them that this is what should have happened to them. Maybe your heart will swell with pride at how much good for the world you've done!
Yes, even I agree that there are too many kids who are born in bad circumstances. So what, many great people have disadvantaged upbringings. Why are rich people with loving parents any more deserving of life?
And how is asking a woman to ensure her bf is wearing protection being 'sexist'?
Why don't we focus on improving contraceptive methods instead of harping on about the God-given right to abortion?
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