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Location: Somewhere gray and damp, close to the West Coast
20,955 posts, read 5,544,409 times
Reputation: 8559
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Originally Posted by irishvanguard
Well, I am glad that you have reminded us of basic principles. It would serve all of us well to remember that the COTUS was written by welfare mommas who died while baring their arms for our right to be legally married to our same-sex partners (while at the same time allowing for accident-cleanup with opposite-sex partners). God bless their brains and blood. They were truly a gifted set of founding mothers.
I'm pretty liberal when it comes to a lot of things, but I still maintain that having an abortion is not a woman's or anyone else's 'right.' Sure, abortion is acceptable in extreme cases (life threatening, cases of rape.etc) but I hate that abortion has become just another method of contraception. Especially if it makes some women less responsible, or use it as a 'get out' clause. There's nothing natural about killing a developing fetus in the womb....primitive humans didn't really have this option (I guess they may have had crude methods) but I believe if you're irresponsible enough to not take the precautions you have to bear the consequences. Although I do think if it's just a few cells that's a slightly different matter.
Btw is there anyone who is non-religious/liberal who shares my view?
How is bringing an unwanted child into the world a right? If I were an unwanted child I would not want to be put through a crappy childhood.
So if people drink a lot of alcohol and exercise excessively to abort, is that okay since it is "natural"? If a guy smokes/does drugs (or is simply plain old) and fertilizes an egg with a mutated sperm, which then later self-aborts at 10 weeks, is that okay? Probably half of all conceptions self-terminate. Are we going to mourn all of them?
Life is fairly cheap. Human life isn't worth any more than other animal or plant life. I don't know why people put such a huge value on it, but it's irrational. Kind of like seeing a cute fluffy animal and being afraid to eat it for food, whereas ugly animals like cows and pigs are okay to slaughter.
Birth control can fail..........the only option left for me at that point would be abortion.
And, I am sick and tired of being called selfish. Do you have a TV, pretty clothes, jewelery, make up, do you go on vacations, buy your children TOYS.............then you are SELFISH.........the money you spent on those frivolous, materialistic THINGS could have been used to FEED A STARVING CHILD somewhere. Toys, jewelery and entertainment vs. life sustaining food. How immoral can you get? Why are you being so self-centered and selfish? Why aren't YOU ashamed of yourself? Where is your sense of humanity and empathy? What anti-social disorders should we label you wiith?
Just because an organism has blood flow and can produce electrical impulses does not mean it is a person or can think or feel.
Strawman, and I will not justify it with a response, aside from this one.
Oh please, cut it out with your heavenly mumbo jumbo.
Again, not a child unless viable. The emotional unborn child garbage is absurd. If you have such extensive medical background, you would know to use the proper terminology.
How do you feel about tax dollars supporting all impoverished born people?
Or are you a right to life until birther?
BTW, how many unwanted born children have you adopted?
What are you talking about? You don't have to believe in any God, much less my Christian God, but you are truly heartless if you have no remorse and see nothing wrong with aborting a sentient human life. No morals. You said the majority of abortions happen before 12 weeks, well, if they happen between 9 and 12 weeks, the baby can FEEL everything happening to it while it's being killed.
I do not like tax dollars going to poor people unless it is a temporary hand up. I fail to see how this relates to the topic. People need to take care of their responsibilities, and one of those responsibilities includes either keeping their legs closed or making the best decision for a child they created if they cannot care for it on their own (which would be adoption).
I have not adopted any children. However, we tried to adopt our niece b/c her mom was in and out of jail, a drunk, a druggie, doesn't even know who the father is, mentally unstable, etc. She asked us to adopt her before she gave birth but we said no for our own reasons, and then she lined up new parents through an agency but decided to keep the baby after she was born (the adoptive parents had flown in from Massachusetts [we were in FL at the time]). Then about 6 months later was when her life came crashing down and we went back and forth with her for several months and I had a lawyer even lined up to finalize paperwork, but she backed out in the end. I have to say, there is no question in my mind that the child would be better off with us, even with her delays due to her mother's drug/alcohol/cigarette use during pregnancy. My sister is selfish and she knows this, but refuses to do the right thing. Even still to this day, she justifies is by saying she loves the child, well, love isn't enough when it comes to raising a kid.
But again, I fail to see what this has to do with the topic at hand.
So a teenaged girl living in a poverty-stricken area who gets raped by some nasty, drunken a-hole when she's walking home from her minimum wage job not only has to deal with the emotional pain of having to abort but also must endure judgment from narrow-minded, Goddy conservatives like you? Time to get off your high horse and step into reality. Are you willing to pay for all the medical and other expenses that girl would incur after having her rape child? NO. The same people who are ultra "pro-life" are also saying poor people shouldn't have kids. You have clearly never walked in those shoes...and if you were truly spiritual you would understand it's not your place (or anyone's for that matter) to judge others...or are you so close to God you think it's okay to help him out and judge right alongside him?
While I do not believe in abortion for pretty much any reason, except for maybe incest b/c in that case, the DNA is probably quite screwy, I will point out that this is what the morning-after pill is for. It's not the same as an abortion, the embryo has not even implanted for about 8 or 10 days after conception. The embryo does not feel pain, there is no beating heart, there is no brain, no nervous system.
She does not have to endure the emotional pain of abortion, the best choice is to give the child up for adoption if she does not feel she would take proper care of it.
THAT is what Christian conservatives like me say. Take note.
I'm not spiritual, I'm Christian. I'm religious and I have a relationship with God. You should try it sometime, it's great.
God will judge everyone, including those who abort children like it's birth control. I'm just saying I will judge someone's morals if they choose to do something like that.
The laws change from state to state. Generally the rule of thumb is "24 weeks",a nd abortions can be performed after that in a life-threatening situation.
What's your point?
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So are many others who aborted.
They wouldn't be aborting if they used it properly. You do understand it's like a 1 in 1000 failure rate when used properly, right? Your assertion that "many" are on birth control is false. Most are likely not using anything.
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Not really, no.
My God doesn't care either way.
See why religion isn't a good point to bring into this debate?
I don't believe your god is the same as my God, in that case.
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I believe a fetus is alive from the moment of conception.
This we agree on.
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However, I don't believe it should have any rights over its incubator until viability can be proven. Which can be different from fetus to fetus. However, once the fetus can survive outside of the womb, then I consider it generally too late for a normal abortion.
In life threatening situations, I do believe abortions can and should be performed at any stage of the pregnancy.
That's kind of an odd way of thinking. You don't know when the child will be viable, science has not yet established a firm date, and like you said, it varies between situations, so who's to set a gestational week at which all children are viable and thus cannot be aborted?
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However, as the incubator, the choice of whether or not to keep the fetus in the cooking oven, is completely up to the one doing the cooking.
According to SCOTUS. But probably not according to God.
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Me and my God are cool. I know all he cares about is the process of reincarnation. Nothin' more, nothin' less. So, we've reached that understanding.
So, obviously you are not Christian, in which case, what your "god" says means nothing to me.
WOMEN ARE NOT STUPID. we know what abortion is, most people have seen the pictures anti choice people throw out in hopes it will make women feel bad about their RIGHT TO CHOICE. seeing pictures will not change her mind or her personal emotional reaction to an abortion if that is indeed the CHOICE she makes.
ranting it is killing, murder and showing ugly pictures is an attempt to make woman feel guilty over a moral choice she has made for herself. who are you to tell someone you don't even know what to do with her body? let alone have her experience an 18 year commitment.
anti choice people never answer the question...if we make it illegal...
what do you do with the women who do not want to be pregnant? do we jail them? send them away to pregnancy camps, force them to remain pregnant? force them to raise a child or force them to give them away?
what do we do with these immoral woman?
They should feel bad. My goal is to make people feel bad for doing something so heinous, and if it keeps someone from doing it, then my goal has been met. Tell me, why shouldn't a woman keep the child and then give it up for adoption? Why is that so difficult to comprehend?
Yes, women who are pregnant, through every fault of their own in the vast majority of cases, should remain so and then give the child up if they cannot care for it properly. Maybe it will teach them a lesson for next time while at the same time making a couple who want to adopt quite happy, not to mention doing what's right for the child and allowing it to have a full and hopefully happy life with loving and responsible parents.
The better question is: What do we do with these immoral women who use abortion for birth control? Answer: We pray for them.
Location: Somewhere gray and damp, close to the West Coast
20,955 posts, read 5,544,409 times
Reputation: 8559
Gee, this thread had such potential before it was hijacked. Thanks.
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