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Sometimes I have to wonder if you people are playing a comedy team or if you are really "at this level" of comprehension.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene
I didn't think you would be able to resist that comment. It takes a LOT of thinking to NOT get sucked into every disaster scenario presented from the AGW crowd. They especially prey on the gullible and easily frightened with their doomsday scenarios that never seem to come true. The Goreacle has about a year left for the ice cap to melt and prove him right.
The lake effect snow machine is completely normal, natural and happens every winter. No AGW scare tactics necessary.
A little common sense goes a long way - like the thought the "phenomenon" has likely happened before, just as the expansion/receding of the glaciers has happened before, just as every single solitary "extreme" in weather OR climate has happened before.
In your case, I wouldn't be a surprised if you were incapable of pouring rainwater out of boot with the instructions printed on the bottom in comic sans serf #24. Again, you focus entirely on global warming, as I've made no such assertions and even the article states there are theories, as in plural. Do you even know what plural means and how to identify when it is used? Did you also read any of the follow up suggestions that are not global warming related. They may be absurd, I don't know, I'm not a climate scientist, but I do know that the current is slowing and I do know that it is a cause for concern because it is something we haven't personally witnessed before.
You are welcome to "believe" as believers do, but the Pentagon believes there is enough reason to be concerned. Whether this is due to global warming, or a pack of dolphins swimming in front of a sensor, I do not know.
Unlike many people here, just because I have an internet connection doesn't make me an expert on everything, I can concede that I simply do not know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby
From your link.
"Global warming could plunge North America and Western Europe into a deep freeze, possibly within only a few decades"
Perhaps you can point me to NASA literature that discuss theories of global warming that are not anthropomorphic........
Perhaps you can first explain in some detail the definition of anthropomorphic and why you used it in this context? Personally, I laughed the first time because it wasn't used properly. In fact, I'll save you some time.
Quote:
–adjective
1.
ascribing human form or attributes to a being or thing not human, esp. to a deity.
2.
resembling or made to resemble a human form: an anthropomorphic carving.
I understand that people are attempting to use this word connotatively with "man made", but this is not an accurate use of language, in fact it is rather clumsy.
In any event, also from my first link in the title there were words and phrases like the following.
Quote:
A Chilling Possibility
Do you understand the definition of "possibility"? Here is a hint, it is not a statement of empirical fact, it is merely a possibility.
So how about the opening sentence in the first paragraph.
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That's the paradoxical scenario gaining credibility among many climate scientists. The thawing of sea ice covering the Arctic could disturb or even halt large currents in the Atlantic Ocean
As you see in the first sentence, this is a theory which is gaining credibility and could. I do not see anyone asserting these things as facts or truths.
So lets try the second paragraph then and see where it is stated as fact and evidenced by empirical data.
Quote:
Some scientists believe this shift in ocean currents could come surprisingly soon--within as little as 20 years, according to Robert Gagosian, president and director of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Some scientist would suggest that it isn't all scientist and that in fact there are others who dispute and refute this hypothesis and its assertion that it could shift ocean currents.
How about the third paragraph's opening sentence.
Quote:
"It's difficult to predict what will happen," cautions Donald Cavalieri, a senior scientist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, "because the Arctic and North Atlantic are very complex systems with many interactions between the land, the sea, and the atmosphere.
This is pretty much an admission that they do not know, thus the difficulty in predicting what will happen or what could happen. Note they mention it is a series of complex interrelated systems which opens the possibility (there is that word again) to many scenarios, not just global warming.
Finally at the very end of the article is another admission.
Quote:
"The sea ice thawing is consistent with the warming we've seen in the last century," notes Spencer, but "we don't know how much of that warming is a natural climate fluctuation and what portion is due to man made greenhouse gases."
They admit they do not know whether this is a naturally occurring cycle or something that mankind has influenced.
I know I've never stated this current is declining due to global warming or man made reasons, in fact I've never stated that this decline in current will have any adverse effects, only that it could.
When the Defense Department and the Pentagon of the United States become concerned with an ocean currents decline, this suggest to me that there is enough evidence to warrant this concern. Whether you wish to infer this is due to just global warming, natural earth cycles, or in part attributed to the BP oil spill, that is entirely up to do, but to simply dismiss something entirely because you "believe or disbelieve" a position because of one possible outcome is a fools errand.
The mini-ice age of the 14th century happened quite rapidly, due to the erupting of major volcanic islands along Iceland. The resulting fresh water melt diverted the gulf stream for more than 200 years.
During this time, freezing temperatures destroyed much of the food crops grown in Europe and Russia. Starvation resulted and from that an outbreak of disease which made the population as a whole far more vulnerable when the black plague entered the continent. Before the ice age the population had been booming. After the plague there were whole areas virtually devoid of population in the countryside. There were also multiple wars and power struggles, largly over resources. The lingering malutrition and starvation which did not end when the ice age finally relentd is believed to be a key to the visciousness of the French Revolution.
Whatever the cause of this if nature is resetting itself as it seems its time to collect lots of warm clothes and ways of heating. Years ago, when talking about global warming and ice melts, the Little Ice age was mentioned, thought largely in passing but it was said to always watch the gulf stream and changes it makes because it is the heat circulation of the planet.
Hoping Oklahoma is far enough south to not be too cold.
In your case, I wouldn't be a surprised if you were incapable of pouring rainwater out of boot with the instructions printed on the bottom in comic sans serf #24.
You really do have a way with words, don't you?
Again, you focus entirely on global warming, as I've made no such assertions and even the article states there are theories, as in plural.
It's all one in the same to the AGW crowd. Every single deviation from the "norm" that we know is somehow connected to global warming - could be, might be! This is just another "possibility" in a long line of possible disasters just waiting around the corner.
They may be absurd, I don't know, I'm not a climate scientist, but I do know that the current is slowing and I do know that it is a cause for concern because it is something we haven't personally witnessed before.
Why would that be cause for concern? Just because man hasn't witnessed a natural phenomenon in the Earth's machinations, doesn't make it a disaster in the making. Besides, altering/changing/speeding up the current is beyond the ability of humans, just as preventing the Earth's temperature from rising a degree is also beyond our reach.
They admit they do not know whether this is a naturally occurring cycle or something that mankind has influenced.
Oh Bingo!! But that WILL NOT stop the AGW lunatics from fretting and clucking while trying to pick our pockets with some kind of tax to speed the damn thing up!
What new catastrophe are they predicting because this current has slowed, which I'm almost 100% positive has happened before?
A mini ice age? Yeah, they've been predicting that for a few years now.
I just don't understand those that think this is a static Earth. They think every little change in climate, or extremes of weather is unusual and fraught with all kinds of doomsday scenarios.
Why do people think the climate shouldn't change?
I just noticed something in your link - you realize that is an article from 2004?
Sometimes I have to wonder if you people are playing a comedy team or if you are really "at this level" of comprehension.
In your case, I wouldn't be a surprised if you were incapable of pouring rainwater out of boot with the instructions printed on the bottom in comic sans serf #24. Again, you focus entirely on global warming, as I've made no such assertions and even the article states there are theories, as in plural. Do you even know what plural means and how to identify when it is used? Did you also read any of the follow up suggestions that are not global warming related. They may be absurd, I don't know, I'm not a climate scientist, but I do know that the current is slowing and I do know that it is a cause for concern because it is something we haven't personally witnessed before.
You are welcome to "believe" as believers do, but the Pentagon believes there is enough reason to be concerned. Whether this is due to global warming, or a pack of dolphins swimming in front of a sensor, I do not know.
Unlike many people here, just because I have an internet connection doesn't make me an expert on everything, I can concede that I simply do not know.
Perhaps you can first explain in some detail the definition of anthropomorphic and why you used it in this context? Personally, I laughed the first time because it wasn't used properly. In fact, I'll save you some time.
I understand that people are attempting to use this word connotatively with "man made", but this is not an accurate use of language, in fact it is rather clumsy.
In any event, also from my first link in the title there were words and phrases like the following.
Do you understand the definition of "possibility"? Here is a hint, it is not a statement of empirical fact, it is merely a possibility.
So how about the opening sentence in the first paragraph.
As you see in the first sentence, this is a theory which is gaining credibility and could. I do not see anyone asserting these things as facts or truths.
So lets try the second paragraph then and see where it is stated as fact and evidenced by empirical data.
Some scientist would suggest that it isn't all scientist and that in fact there are others who dispute and refute this hypothesis and its assertion that it could shift ocean currents.
How about the third paragraph's opening sentence.
This is pretty much an admission that they do not know, thus the difficulty in predicting what will happen or what could happen. Note they mention it is a series of complex interrelated systems which opens the possibility (there is that word again) to many scenarios, not just global warming.
Finally at the very end of the article is another admission.
They admit they do not know whether this is a naturally occurring cycle or something that mankind has influenced.
I know I've never stated this current is declining due to global warming or man made reasons, in fact I've never stated that this decline in current will have any adverse effects, only that it could.
When the Defense Department and the Pentagon of the United States become concerned with an ocean currents decline, this suggest to me that there is enough evidence to warrant this concern. Whether you wish to infer this is due to just global warming, natural earth cycles, or in part attributed to the BP oil spill, that is entirely up to do, but to simply dismiss something entirely because you "believe or disbelieve" a position because of one possible outcome is a fools errand.
Oh let me help you out anthropomorphic means man made. Also use interchangeably with anthropogenic. Google either AWG terms and you will get about 10,000 hits.
LOL, all the hedging you allude to is in connection with the mechanism, not the cause, NASA has been totally up front about their devotion to AGW.
Ok, now perhaps you could point to any NASA theory about global warming that isn't attributed to man? Mmmm, I see you can't. So the poster you were hectoring is quite right to assume NASA was refering to AGW.
Now whether you are a supporter or denier of climate change, it would seem that NASA and the US Defense Dept are taking this latest issue very seriously.
For those not familiar with the North Atlantic current or the global oceanic circulation, it is based on two basic things, the rotation of the earth and temperature variations. As we all know from basic science class, hot air or water rises and colder air or water sinks or falls. It is upon this basic principle that our oceans currents are generated.
Recently, the North Atlantic current which brings warm water out of the equatorial regions of the Atlantic as well as the powerful warm gulf stream which flows northward then east towards Europe has begun to slow. This is the reason why temperatures in places like the UK are relatively mild considering their latitude. When the current slows or stops, then Europe doesn't get its blast of warm water and in turn the mild temperatures.
If this current were to in fact stop entirely, the outcome is likely not to be too good, but read further in the article.
I suppose you would have to ask them, as I have said several times in this thread, a.) I don't know b.) there is a measurable depreciation of current flow c.) People have theories as to why which may or may not be climate related, I again do not know and by the looks of things, neither to they.
Yup, I don't think we really understand how the ocean currents operate. Remember the abrupt cooling we experienced from the“Great Pacific Climate Shift” in the late '70s.
This planet's climate rides like a roller coaster.
Actually upon further reading, some people are theorizing that the BP oil spill may be contributing to this. Reasoning is that oil prevents the natural heat transfer between thermalclines. In addition to all the oil that was dumped into the gulf stream, there was the dispersant as well.
Now, I have no idea if this has merit or not yet, but the current is slowing, whatever the cause.
This is completely natural. It has to do with the Earth's orbit when it oblongs like it is about to start doing. The whole 2012 debate revolves around this orbit change. The magnetic poles are supposed to flip also. Every many thousands of years or so this happens (I Forget the actual estimated number). Man is not in any way causing this to happen.
Try as hard as you might; invest billions in research...you cannot fight Mother Nature.
The history of the earth shows dramatic climate shifts. It's not like it was all static until Al Gore came along to enlighten us.
Try as hard as you might; invest billions in research...you cannot fight Mother Nature.
The history of the earth shows dramatic climate shifts. It's not like it was all static until Al Gore came along to enlighten us.
If we look at the past 65 million years of this planet's climate, we are currently in a very cold period.
Try as hard as you might; invest billions in research...you cannot fight Mother Nature.
The history of the earth shows dramatic climate shifts. It's not like it was all static until Al Gore came along to enlighten us.
I find it quite hilarious that some egotistical megalomaniacs think they can change what nature is doing. These wackos really believe they are that powerful. I find that quite amusing.
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