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Old 12-28-2010, 10:12 AM
 
2,541 posts, read 2,739,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsm113 View Post
I agree with the author that higher learning is much more expensive than it used to be. But is it justified? There are really two issues at play here.
1. Higher learning is too expensive
2. Students have taken on too much debt as a result.

But let's consider if the cost for higher learning stayed the same, more or less, as 1980 levels. Wouldn't that make it much more accessible for just about anyone? Every waiter, retail salesperson, janitor, etc would be going to college. And then we would have even more college-educated waiters, retail salespeople, and janitors. The world still needs those people, those jobs are not going away.
Higher learning should be relatively expensive so as not to be accessible to 100% of the population. The article points out that so many of our young students waste their college days partying and drinking. This is what happens when people go to college that don't belong there. Save those seats for people who would take their studies seriously. People who saved up to be able to attend, or earned scholarships, so that when the time comes to put forth the effort of studying, they do.
And if those people go into debt to earn their degree, you can bet that those same people will work their butts off just like they did before and during school.
Higher education should subsidized to those who score high academically, and in those fields that the government deems most important to the country, like science and math.

If we want to compete in the global economy, we need to turn out a higher quality of educated Americans. A college degree will always serve as a 'cutting point' to distinguish a graduate from a non-graduate in the workplace, but a highly educated workplace should be a national priority.

 
Old 12-28-2010, 10:30 AM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,663 posts, read 25,634,295 times
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Kennedy started it all in the sixties. Everybody should be able to get a good education, so they paid for the education of those who made no money with tax dollars and the middle class had to suck it up and pay for the taxes to pay for the education of others and for their own education.

If you do not have the money for college, there are other options to get the money besides borrowing. My daughter went to work for a company that had weekend shifts for those who did not want to work during the week. She paid her own way by taking Tuesday and Thursday classes. She only had one Summer course at the end of her time that was not taught on Tuesday's or Thursday's. She saved to be able to live during that time. After a little more than three years, she was a college graduate.

My son took a different route that my husband begged him not to go, but it worked for him. He joined the Navy on a scholarship program. He did his time in the Navy and came back home $10,000 richer because he saved his salary instead of drinking it up. He went to college on the GI Bill that he had earned by working for almost nothing. After four years of college, he still had the $10,000 to keep him going before he found a job.

If you borrowed the money, then you should pay it. My children worked long and hard to pay their own way. Get a second job and use all the money from that to pay off your loan. Nobody owes you a college education.

My husband wanted our son to go to college first and then go into the military as an officer. Any of you below 35 years old could join the military if you are still single and let the military pay for all you clothing and food and use anything beyond that to pay off your load. Please do not keep yelling and suggesting that taxpayers somehow should pay your way. Taxpayers like my children are doing enough for you already. If you know enough to get through college than you should know enough to pay off the loan it took to go there.

I think the problem is that many people who really do not have the brains to get through college had been floated along until they graduated. I took a class in a local community college and saw a lot of this going on. It is time for colleges to get tough and time for people to start paying their own way. Some of the highest wage earners have never been to college.

Last edited by NCN; 12-28-2010 at 10:39 AM..
 
Old 12-28-2010, 10:56 AM
 
915 posts, read 1,190,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freefall View Post
Higher education should subsidized to those who score high academically, and in those fields that the government deems most important to the country, like science and math.

If we want to compete in the global economy, we need to turn out a higher quality of educated Americans. A college degree will always serve as a 'cutting point' to distinguish a graduate from a non-graduate in the workplace, but a highly educated workplace should be a national priority.
True, but how do you keep out people who should not be in college to begin with? I'm talking about the people who use it as a chance to party and drink with no intention of accomplishing anything academically? You can either make tuition high or raise your acceptance standards.

And what about all the vocational schools offering associates degrees for $20,000 per year? Do you know how much a culinary degree costs? People pay all that money to graduate and HOPEFULLY get a job paying $10/hr.
 
Old 12-28-2010, 11:22 AM
 
2,541 posts, read 2,739,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsm113 View Post
True, but how do you keep out people who should not be in college to begin with? I'm talking about the people who use it as a chance to party and drink with no intention of accomplishing anything academically? You can either make tuition high or raise your acceptance standards.

And what about all the vocational schools offering associates degrees for $20,000 per year? Do you know how much a culinary degree costs? People pay all that money to graduate and HOPEFULLY get a job paying $10/hr.
Well, there will always be the spoiled rich kids who have their careers made FOR them, ie the Shrub. But those who really are not qualified or have not prepared themselves, or do not have rich parents to pay their way through, will not attend, and should not attend.

Those educational institutions, like the culinary and massage therapy schools shouls not be allowed to trap students with the guarenteed government backed loans. Those schools prey on the desperate and ignorant, and the debt trap only hinders America as a whole.

The government should set up trade schools at low cost for those who show an aptitude for skills that are in demand. For these you need to pass certain exams to qualify.
 
Old 12-28-2010, 11:32 AM
 
915 posts, read 1,190,877 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by freefall View Post
Well, there will always be the spoiled rich kids who have their careers made FOR them, ie the Shrub. But those who really are not qualified or have not prepared themselves, or do not have rich parents to pay their way through, will not attend, and should not attend.

Those educational institutions, like the culinary and massage therapy schools shouls not be allowed to trap students with the guarenteed government backed loans. Those schools prey on the desperate and ignorant, and the debt trap only hinders America as a whole.

The government should set up trade schools at low cost for those who show an aptitude for skills that are in demand. For these you need to pass certain exams to qualify.

Those trade schools are for-profit, so I can understand why they would want to charge so much for their degrees/certificates. I have a friend who used to work for one of the large ones here in Phoenix. He worked in the accounting dept so he saw first hand how much the students were paying. It shocked me to hear it, and now when I see their commercials on TV I can definitely see what kind of market their targeting.
The next time you watch daytime TV, pay attention to what kind of commercials you see. Trade schools, DUI lawyers, and debt consolidation. Everything an unemployed person would need!
 
Old 12-28-2010, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Land of debt and Corruption
7,545 posts, read 8,328,091 times
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The more government subsidizes tuition via grants/loans, the more the universities and colleges jack up their tuition. It's a neverending cycle, but there will come a point when middle and upper-middle income folks can't afford to send their kids to college anymore either and only the very wealthy and the very poor (with taxpayer grant money) will be able to afford it.
 
Old 12-28-2010, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Hades
2,126 posts, read 2,382,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
And? If you cannot afford to go to school, don't go. If you cannot afford to send your kids to school, don't have them.

Personal responsibility...what a concept.
Only, with loan sharks and attractive deals made by the MILLIONS to students nationwide, MOST kids cannot afford to go to school. But go. And if they can even, barely afford to go, they rack up credit buying groceries.

The days of working your way thru college are now pretty rare. Some do it. It's possible. But when a university BA costs 10's of thousands ....what 18 year old has that to spare to start with anyway????

Pretty obvious that many of our universities are cattle farms as well as very much for profit industries. To the detriment of many graduates entering a faltering economy....

Personal responsibility is a nice idea but if many high school graduates used it, we would then see faltering town economies throughout the nation. Many towns exist almost solely for the purpose of supporting the university population...many of them who are racking up debt to be there and achieve their goal.
 
Old 12-28-2010, 12:40 PM
 
2,541 posts, read 2,739,050 times
Reputation: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsm113 View Post
Those trade schools are for-profit, so I can understand why they would want to charge so much for their degrees/certificates. I have a friend who used to work for one of the large ones here in Phoenix. He worked in the accounting dept so he saw first hand how much the students were paying. It shocked me to hear it, and now when I see their commercials on TV I can definitely see what kind of market their targeting.
The next time you watch daytime TV, pay attention to what kind of commercials you see. Trade schools, DUI lawyers, and debt consolidation. Everything an unemployed person would need!
Yes, they often target those who are least qualified to attend. I know someone who was recently laid off at Phoenix College, one of the worst offenders. His jobs was to get them to sign on the dotted line, and promise a rosy future. What they got is a worthless certificate, and a lifetime of debt that cannot be removed by bankrupcy.
 
Old 12-28-2010, 12:54 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,707,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsm113 View Post
The main fallacy there is that education no longer ensures employment.
Nor does it ensure someone can read and write. College has now been dumbed down because it's all about big profits. Over 20% of college graduates are functionally illiterate - unable to read simple prose or perform basic math equations.

Many universities no longer have admission standards and are becoming degree mills.
 
Old 12-28-2010, 12:57 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,707,823 times
Reputation: 22474
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
The cost of everything has gone up. It's called inflation.
No - not everything. Labor costs in many areas have gone down. And housing has gone down. Houses in many cities are now a fraction of what they once were. The costs of computers is down - in the 70's you would have shelled out $2000 for a computer that couldn't do more than a cell phone today.

Why should tuition be going up so much faster than anything else?
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